Is it possible for anybody to ever be as good as SRR?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by onourway, Apr 30, 2008.


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  1. onourway

    onourway Haye KTFO1 Wlad Full Member

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    In the modern era, it's unlikely that a person will fight more than 50 times.

    Now in these 50 fights, they'll be doing well if they have over 5 career defining fights.


    Now in SRR's era, he fought many top guys and fought over 200 times, at one point having a record of 120 - 1 or something similar.

    Is it possible, no matter how talented a guy is, for him to build a resume as good as fighters in the past? I think it's near impossible.
     
    onourway, Apr 30, 2008
    onourway, Apr 30, 2008
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What is "the modern era"?

    Duran fought last in 2001, he has a slim case for being above Robinson.

    Ali fought last in 1981, he has a slim case for being above Robinson.

    If Jones had taken on Toney and Hopkins x2, Benn, Eubank, the G-Mann, that Polish guy whose name I can't spell and stayed at HW after Ruiz, he would have a case.

    Here -

    Guy turns pro at 154. He's tight at the weight. Wins a belt, moves up. Dominates for 5 years. Moves up, beats a good champ at 168, moves up. Now about 30-0, he beats a 10 defence undisputed champ at 175 and then wins a rematch and then makes 4 succesful defences. Cruiser. Now fighting noticably bigger men. Gets of the canvas to beat the p4p #2. Loses the rematch. Wins the rubber. 2 more defences. Up to HW. Wins a strap. Then another. Then gets beat. Then loses against the divisions best, outweighed by 35lbs. The rematch is a contriversial draw. Retires.

    He has a case.
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
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  3. Sandmanl337

    Sandmanl337 Pactard Full Member

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    I think there are a very few select fighters who can be/are as the past fighters even though they probably won't fight over 50 fights.. I think it's how you look it at.. Do todays fighters take on more stronger, top contending fighters than those from the past? Dunno' if today's training and dieting helped make a better fighter/opponent than the ones from the past.. I dunno'.. I don't think it's how many people you fight that makes you better, but what you achieve instead...
     
    Sandmanl337, Apr 30, 2008
    Sandmanl337, Apr 30, 2008
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  4. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I honestly don't think it would take all that.

    Document Duran's career, which as you say gives him a slim case, and it wouldn't compare to the career you just laid out IMO.

    Jones could have done it had he just beat 3-5 more fighters and retired after Ruiz. Add Benn, DM, Nunn, Collins, and a rematch with Hopkins in 2001, and he has a case IMO.
     
    kg0208, Apr 30, 2008
    kg0208, Apr 30, 2008
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  5. Symphenyceo

    Symphenyceo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mission impossible
     
    Symphenyceo, Apr 30, 2008
    Symphenyceo, Apr 30, 2008
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  6. onourway

    onourway Haye KTFO1 Wlad Full Member

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    So we need a Light Middleweight to step up and win two heavyweight belts to get somebody better than SRR?

    Like I said, near impossible.
     
    onourway, Apr 30, 2008
    onourway, Apr 30, 2008
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The point is that within the confines of a modern career it can be done. It's nothing to do with era, it's to do with fighting the very best, dominating at more than one weight and great skills.

    That would fire him into my twelve, and anyone in the twelve has at least a slim case (or 11 as it stands).
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Don't NEED. It is an example of a fighter who could develop a case under modern rules.

    Duran and Ali have done something similair already.
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
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  9. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes, but a LMW fighting against the top HW and coming out with a loss and a controversial loss?

    No fighter I know of has ever existed with that type of talent. Jones couldn't have fought Lewis two times and come out with that scenario, though I do think winning a LMW belt would have made his career even better.

    Certainly it's possible in the modern era. Unfortunately it will be based on even more subjective analysis than it was in previous eras since no one in this era will be fighting 200 fights.
     
    kg0208, Apr 30, 2008
    kg0208, Apr 30, 2008
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Remove the HW contests and our imagine man still has a chase.

    But let's not forget that Langford's first great win was over a lightweight, and that Jack Dempsey was terrified of him. Different days, but it got Langford to #1 on my list.

    The best fighter of all time is always going to be very, very special.

    In the meantime, we have two modern fighters in Duran and Ali who are within the same stratosfear as things stand.
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    #10
  11. Symphenyceo

    Symphenyceo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And a belt or two at CW
     
    Symphenyceo, Apr 30, 2008
    Symphenyceo, Apr 30, 2008
    #11
  12. onourway

    onourway Haye KTFO1 Wlad Full Member

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    Taken from the other thread, SRR'S notable wins.

    Notable fighters on Ray Robinsons win resume

    Sammy Angott x3
    Fritzie Zivic x2
    Jake LaMotta x5
    Henry Armstrong
    George Costner x2
    Jimmy Doyle
    Kid Gavalin x2
    Bobo Olsen x2
    Randy Turpin
    Rocky Graziano x4
    Rocky Castellani
    Gene Fullmer
    Carmen Basillo

    That's 26 notable wins.

    Mayweather's only fought 39 times, how can the greats from the modern era compete with that?? (By modern, I mean fighters starting from mid 90's onwards)
     
    onourway, Apr 30, 2008
    onourway, Apr 30, 2008
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Okay, try this.

    Guy turns pro into a very competitve MW division. Unfies and defends. More defences than Hopkins against some very very good Middles, including one who is hovering at and around the top 15 all time in that division. Moves up to 168, wins and defends. 175, wins and defends. Fights like Jones but fights everybody.

    Man has a case.
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    #13
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You must also weight his losses, of course, which you haven't done. A fighter going completely unbeaten v very good fighters will have a case. That's all, really. 50-0 v the cream over 3 weights would do it.
     
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 30, 2008
    #14
  15. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I can lay out a scenario by which Mayweather could have gotten greater consideration. It's not about matching statistics, but creating a scenario of dominance in this era by beating the best of the era.

    If DLH was unbeaten or even had only one loss, he would have a case against SRR with the caliber of opponents he's fought.
     
    kg0208, Apr 30, 2008
    kg0208, Apr 30, 2008
    #15
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