is it safe to say that pac is not 1-dimensional anymore?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mad_takamura, Jul 1, 2008.


  1. mad_takamura

    mad_takamura It's getting hot in here! Full Member

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    based on what he showed against diaz?

    yep, diaz is not that great ala jmm or em,sanchez,larios et al.. but we have to acknowledge still that pac, though in my eyes, changed from the savage 1-dimensional brawler in to somewhat a technical boxer-puncher at that david fight. this is the best fight i've seen pac fight so far, after so many years of watching him in blow by blow when he was just 16years old up to now (a local boxing t.v. show here at phil since 1995.)

    i am a pac fan, but i don't wanna speak as one. if you take the pac fan out from me and just a boxing fan, still i've seen those changes, or improvements in pac's game after all the bouts i've seen on him so far.

    pac had matured. his skills have polished instantly and ostentatively in this fight with david and it, honestly,as corny as it may seem, surprised me.(props to roach and his team, and his new conditioning coach!:happy) take the nuthuggery aside and allow me to stress my points as a boxing fan pls. this may look a bit huggery, i know, but i have to tell it though, this is really what it is..

    i am excited to see pac showed all of this brilliant points. is he on his peak? i don't know. but until pac do this things i shall point out below to an elite fighter who is better than david, then i'm justified.

    what is one-dimensional btw? we all know that but just to clear things out, it is: lack of boxing skills, predictability of his punches especially his killer punch(the left straight, which jmm, and em countered easily) ;lack of defense, lack of lateral movement etc..

    now this is what iv'e seen him did at david, imo and my own observation..the technical aspect apart from his natural punching power and speed..

    1.jab-he sticked his jab as he moved away from david, to get away from his closed quarter boxing..that is gameplan. that jab was almost perfect, it bolts david's head back.
    2.lateral movement-he moved side to side with quick footwork. as he moved from side to side, most especially to his right, he throws a right hook. he kept his distance with the help of his jab. he literally "outboxed" david, getting away whenever david is on the verge of countering.
    3.right hooks-the most he did in his whole career.
    4.combinations.-right hook-right uppercut combination was superb. there was a lot of combinations from differnt punches actually. right hook-left straight, double right hooks, right hook-left cross. he did it with great speed. at 145 at fight night, that actually changed my mind of pac facing hatton at 140, which i am originally against.
    5.gameplan A-he kept the fight at the center of the ring. if someone's gonna get pinned in the corner, pac made sure that was david.
    gameplan B- whenever david would try to outwrestle pac in clinches and hit him with his elbow; pac kept his hand guard at his jaw.
    6.maturity-at round 7, david was in desperate mode. he was playing dirty and was trying to lure pac in to abrawl. he hit pac with rabbit punches and in the back of his head to agitate him, hoping pac would abandon his gameplan. he was pressing pac in to a brawl, but pac maintained his composure and gameplan. no room for machismo, but maturity for pac.

    i hope this won't be labelled nuthuggery. this is plain analysis only, this is a honest opinion. you can dissapoint me but this is what i believe. i believe at 135 where there is no problems in making weight, plus pac's maturity, pac would be phenomenal...until he faces a more respectable opponent where he would showcase what he did to david, i will allow some criticism on my part.
    but at 135 simply put, with that boxing skills, only guz would stand a chance. not even jmm would, no hating, just an analysis..

    what do you guys think? i hope you can give me a honest opinion..:think
     
  2. jupzrooni

    jupzrooni Tyler Durden Full Member

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    he still IS...


















    if you ask the haters
     
  3. Azania

    Azania Active Member Full Member

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    I gotta admit..Manny looked much better...technically...than I've seen him before.Granted,this was against D Diaz...and not a technically superior guy like Morales,JMM etc..

    The way he used his right hand was impressive...at times he was trippling on it...fast hard shots..and turns it better for the horse shot than he did before.

    As a jab tho'...he still does'nt do it right IMO...he almost pawns with it...kinda clubbing with it...he still does'nt let it flow freely and straight like it should....As an uppercut or a hook lead tho',it's very dangerous,and he's using it more often now....Bad news for future opponents.

    He still fought most of that fight in second gear tho'....I was concern to see him looking gassed by the 7th...even at the pace they were going...Maybe it was the extra weight,I'm not sure.Hope that's all it was.

    But like I said,Manny's getting...even at 30....Roach must be applauded...bad news fro the guyound him.
     
  4. TheH1tMan

    TheH1tMan Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He is of course one-dimensional. Just because Diaz is a cross between a turtle and snail doesn't all of a sudden make Pac extraordinarily skilled.

    This is where it becomes negative fanatism for fighters. After a recent win there are always someone out there who has to overdo it. In the end all Pac fans end up looking like morons. And this is infair to Pac. He is an entertainign fighter, but he is not multi-dimensional. He ofcourse knows how to jab and move and so on like any other fighter, but he is (as he has always been) a fighter that relies on him and the opponent taking turns attaching. You hit me and then I'll hit you. No 'noble art of self-defense there, but again... as long as noone has such ridiculous claims Pac can be liked by many.

    It is when Pac fans go overboard that it gets out of hand.
     
  5. knockout

    knockout Make my day Full Member

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    of coruse he aint.
     
  6. hellblazer

    hellblazer All-Time Greatâ„¢ Full Member

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    imho, he's 1.5 dimensional j/k
     
  7. mad_takamura

    mad_takamura It's getting hot in here! Full Member

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    the first fight with jmm is obviously a 1-dimensional pac facing jmm. he was getting countered silly when he was going to release his killer left. at the second jmm-pac, aside from parrying some of jmm shots in the mid rounds, still 1dimensional in the sense that he did not follow gameplan,(since that is a requirement to be not 1-dimensional according to some) which is to go to the right of jmm.(buboy pac's other trainer, and best friend admitted this in a local interview.) the mab-pac2 fight,though showed him as a differnt pac is incomparable to the david fight. in fact, there are some posters who stills was unsatisfied that pac was not yet multidimensional. they pointed no lateral movement from side to side and repetetive selection of punches, and no clear fight plan. i made this thread to know if those same persons are now satisfied and humble to admit that pac, indeed has evolved in to a technically skilled boxer which i think he did.
     
  8. knockout

    knockout Make my day Full Member

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    Hes multi dimentional depends who hes up against and fights at a diffrent dimention.:good
     
  9. Chert

    Chert Ringside Potato Full Member

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    pac now has much better variety in his punches. has a two-fisted attack now. has better defense, balance, patience and punch selection. it's a great improvement from his purely one-two whirlwind style during his 126-lb days and earlier. probably he's about 2-D now... ehehe... :)
     
  10. mad_takamura

    mad_takamura It's getting hot in here! Full Member

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    but the difference was so obvious at this fight with david. if you saw pac's previous fight, he have a jab yes, bbut that leads to the oh-so popular 1-2 r 1-1-2. here he was not even lunging. his stance was straight boxing to make it more unpredictale in my own observation..it is for this reasons why i, painstakingly, made my points above crystal clear. i wanna know if you agree to some of my points and if you watched pac's fights before. i mean, he could have done that to jorge solis, jorge, imo, is much a lesser fighter than david..
     
  11. mad_takamura

    mad_takamura It's getting hot in here! Full Member

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    :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
     
  12. TheH1tMan

    TheH1tMan Well-Known Member Full Member

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    All fighters know the basics and are multi-dimensional given enough time.

    Diaz 'the Snail' is the perfect background to show this.
     
  13. mad_takamura

    mad_takamura It's getting hot in here! Full Member

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    i bet valero can't do what pac did to david. my point is, valero is a perfect example of 1-dimensional. my question is: do you think he can imitate what pac did against david?
    and as far as david is concerned, this guy is an olympian, it just baffles me how many people downgrade this tough son of a gun. he has a respectable record, and also defeated zad judah in the amateurs fyi.
    diaz"the snail" has my props for being tough though. i wanna ask too if you've seen some of pac's previous fights. if you did saw them, then you've seen the difference. you don't have to be a hardcore pacfan to see it, do you?
     
  14. mad_takamura

    mad_takamura It's getting hot in here! Full Member

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    if pac does that to the likes of juan, nate, jmm3 and guz then i'm justified. we'll jus wait and see...:bbb
     
  15. TheH1tMan

    TheH1tMan Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes, Diaz is tough. He is a reasonably good fighter. However - he IS slow. And that is the point. All fighters know the basics. They all know - in theory - what they should be doing. And given enoigh time they can do it.

    To the other guy that says it is about either being a fan and liking everything about a fighter or being against and disliking everything about a fighter.

    No, I disagree. I like Pac and I think he is very entertaining. I also think he is a strong case for p4p no. 1 right now.

    But that doesn't mean I have to think he all of a sudden is multidimensional and skilled as another mayweather or what not. Fact is - he is not. And that has not changed. What has changed is that Diaz was super-slow and Pac had a clear speed advantage. Of ocurse he used that by doing a bit more than usually.

    That should not be a surprise. So let's try to keep it a little real here. Emotions run high and some fans are so extremely proud of Pac that there is no limit to how fantastic he is in every aspect. Let's keep it real.

    All fighters know the basics. They all know - in theory - what they should be doing. And given enoigh time they can do it. Pac too.