Is James Toney an all atg

I know we shouldn't really salivate over one-sided beatdowns and that we shouldn't really rate wins over B-level fighters etc etc, but I watched Toney-Barkley for the first time in ages the other night, and it's just one of the most glorious things I've ever seen. Toney is literally punch-perfect all night, it's a sustained showing of absolute skill and class. So many times he anticipated Barkley swinging, and as the Blade opened to throw, James lashed him up the middle with lightning-fast hooks and uppercuts on the inside. Toney's handspeed is fantastic in that fight too, despite his reputation as a 'plodder'. In his 91-94 prime, he was no slouch. He was ****ing brilliant.

 

Toney could have been an indisputable all-time great but he squandered his career on the feed bag.

His mother is apparently a great pastry chef and owns a bakery. I guess he visits her regularly.

 

Which would make Dave Tiberi what, the second coming of Henry Armstrong?

 

Many greats in their primes had tricky nights with lesser fighters.

Lennox Lewis was KO'd by McCall AND Rahman, went life and death with Ray Mercer, and had a near-thing with Shannon Briggs. But Lewis was a great heavyweight, was he not? And none of those four were Armstrong-like, especially not Rahman or Briggs.

You could go through history and find many, many similar examples. More or less everyone had off-nights.

Toney came through and won that fight. End of story.

 

and the canadian sprinter ben johnson a genuine gold meddle winner....:hey

 

couldn't say it any better myself (and i won't try)

say the same thing i always do: all time great talent, not an all time great fighter

 

:twisted:

 

Ignorance.

Do you have any idea how long injectable testosterone and derivativeness of it stay in your system? Months, potentially.

Don't even go the oral anabolics right, no athlete simply uses oral steroids and nothing else, thats ineffective. Steroids are stacked, the injectable is the important part of the equation. They work synergistically.

You knew all this of course. :rofl:rofl

 

Really.

You're serious.

Go watch that fight again and conjure some kind of rationalization for Toney winning that fight. I want to see your card.

 

Even if we both scored it otherwise, does that mean Toney was not a great fighter?? Neither was Lewis then, as he was KO'd by McCall and Rahman. Neither was Arguello, as he lost to Vilomar Fernandez. Neither was Mike Tyson, as he lost to Buster Douglas. Etc etc etc... :dead

 

Yes most definitely to be an elite fighter from Middleweight to Heavyweight is something only an All time great could do. He has been inconsistant but regardless he deserves to be ranked high.

 

I agree Toney was a great fighter but not top 50 P4P by any stretch. He had a very sophisticated style for the boxing aficionado but any sport is about effectiveness not style, and losing to Griffin and Thadzi and for all intents Tiberi do put a bit of a pall on his effectiveness.

 

i agree totally BUT you have to consider the other all time greats that were inconsistent or lost to fighters you wouldn't expect. joey g, emile griffith, archie moore even lost to fighters they shouldn't have. toney have fought so many times, over so many weight classes that slip ups happen. my issue, like yours, is that it wasn't the competition that did it but the man: toney lost cause he was lazy, arrogant and occasionally stupid in the ring. not a sign of a great

 

Hey, nowhere did I say he was a top 50 ATG, I thoroughly agree that he is not top 50 OAT. However, I do think he is an ATG, one of the top 100 variety. Yes he was inconsistent, lost fights he shouldn't have etc, but not everyone is a micro-managed clean-living zero-protecting legacy-planner. Duran lost to Kirkland Laing, Emile Griffith had sloppy nights, some of the greats were not ultra-motivated and in peak condition every time they should have been. James Toney achieved enough through his skills to have earned greatness IMO.