Is Jersey Joe Walcott an ATG?

If he wasn’t would it still be a discussion point to this day?

 

Yes, clearly for me. His fights against Louis, Charles and Marciano are among the most important of that heavyweight transition era. He was an excellent fighter with a great style and he had a lot of really close and weird losses. A lot of these 28-0 flashy contenders in years since would have been outclassed and beaten down by JJW when he was 28-11-1. I think he would be good in this era at a lower weight as well.

 

Louis was convinced he won that fight,he said so in his autobiography, and he said so on TV, with Walcott sitting next to him.

 

You haven't seen the full Louis first fight and so you cannot give a definitive opinion on who won it from the 15 minutes of action highlights available,to suggest otherwise is just silly.

 

These losses when," he hadnt eaten",do you see any marked weight differential in them from his wins? If so which fights?

 

He also lost to both Ray and Maxim neither of whom were great heavies,and lost to Layne, Charles x2, and Allen.
Very good fighter but not an ATG ,not for me.

 

Yeah, but again, there is context. He sometimes didn't get enough to eat, he took fights at the last minute, he couldn't train, held down regular jobs, etc. He had a very rough path. Some of his losses were bad decisions, and some even possibly thrown, since he was connected.

 

It was mentioned in the book on Ezzard Charles, Ezzard Charles: A boxing life. I don't believe they got that deep into it.

 

We all know that the weight and suffering of The Great Depression fell uniquely heavy upon Walcott's shoulders and that all his opponents were living in the lap of luxury.

Now, as the man asked, point to the fights where Walcott's weight was remarkedly low in context to his progression. We have the weigh ins from the majority of his fights so this should be easy.

 

We have agree that about 70 percent of writers who did see it thought Walcott won. There is nothing silly about it, you just have a little denial over it.

You make judgements on fights you didn't see all the time, like Johnson-Hart.

 

It doesn't really work that way, and it is ridiculous to think it does. This was Walcott's life, and the facts of it are not dependent on me finding examples of him coming in underweight.

 

"Walcott didn't copy moves, he invented them".

 

This,

and it's effects on him, being weakened by it, fighting for survival and likewise the psychological side of it all also weighs heavy on 'people', loads of them.

Moore spoke of such things, hell it was even portrait in the movie the Cinderella Man.

Of course this is a real thing, I am a bit Hypoglycemic for example, and if I get really hungry I get shaky & weak, sickly feelings and I have to stop and eat right away, especially in the heat, which when I was working Waste Disposal in the Heat of the Okanagan Valley, it damn near killed me. My weight never fluctuated during such spells, but I was all but useless during them.

Why would one think there would be weight variations, if your weak with hunger, your weak until you get some nourishment. It's silly to think regularly eating little wouldn't weaken a person, compared to securely eating 3 squares a day. Sadly there were periods where millions of people had to endure such realities.

Confused by the implications of otherwise.

 

I did a thread on Walcott and why he bloomed late among other things. I thought it fair.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/the-curious-case-of-jersey-joe-walcott-and-his-prime.643117/

 

Well done, you can't beat actually Contemporary Reports & Documentation.

again, it was a sad & hard way of life for far, far too many people and regretfully it's still a fact in this day & age as well.