Is Jim Jeffries criminally underrated today?

I am not disputing that, I am just saying that Jeffries was strong, even by todays standards!

 

Who were the best African of his time? Please do not say the teenaged Sam Mcvey who quit boxing while Jeffries was an active champion, or Langford who was jr middle weight, who's manager advertised he fight any man but Jeffries.

Armstrong ( who Ko'd Ed Martin twice for example ) and Griffin quality as the best African American heavyweights of the time, and Peter Jackson was a legendary.

As champion from 1899-1905, you can say Johnson was worthy of a title shot from mid 1903-early 1905. Johnson also lost via KO to 1899 Klondike and Choynski in 1901 He was beaten in high sakes match with Marvin Hart in 1905, billed as an elimination match with Jeffries. Take not your favorite author doe snot say the decision was a robbery! Sprinkle in a loss to Hank Griffin in 1901 as well. And too many draws. Had Johnson beaten Fitz, Sharkey or Corbett during this time line, he would have a much better case. As we know Jeffries returned to face Johnson much later, so he really didn't miss out on anyone.

 

To be honest with you, if Jeffries had fought Johnson instead of Munro, I would be satisfied with his efforts to make terms with the best black challengers.

 

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I think its very likely Jeffries did beat Frank Childs in 2 rounds, and Joe Cotton in 2 rounds. This is a good reference to it, why would a news paper make things up? They got into details. IMO These fights should be added to Jeffries official record.

I have not seem details on the Ed Marin KO like the above lists. Also who was George Griffin? 11 seconds?! That's a one punch KO, the first one that landed.

 

Thanks to everyone who answered me about possible fights, Jeffries vs Childs and Jeffries vs Martin.
There is no evidence, it seems to me. Although perhaps the fights tooked place, but without leaving sources. Or they have not yet been found. It happens very often in history.

 

very interesting, thanks. but are there other sources that confirm fights?

 

I don't think Ruhlin deserved a draw. He was staggered a few times and down a few times.

" THE DECISION WAS HISSED."

[url]https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SDU18970717.2.69&e=-------en--20--1--txt-txIN--------1[/url]

 

In terms of how complete the records are. The Ruhlin Jeffries fight had two fights on the undercard, neither are on boxrec.

Charles Goff Knocked out Edward O'Malia in three rounds.They were said to have drawn recently, which is especially interesting as it's before any of Goff's fights on boxrec [url]https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/59823[/url]
Their previous draw was in Oakland on March 5th.
Check page 7 of The Oakland Tribune from 1897 March 6th if you want the report

Charles Reno beat Bob McCrosson on points over ten rounds, the latter were said to be amateurs in one report though.

 

I read a few, but they are reported KO's, not with much detail as the San Fran article reports. The details are what we need.

There is a lot out there to research, including many defunct newspapers that perhaps one day will be digitalized.

Also, Jeffries as the Pacific Coast champion, is mostly uncharted waters. Who did he beat to win this title? A good research such as Luckett Davis, if he's still alive and focused on it, could probably get some additional answers.

 

In the preliminaries Goff defeated O'Malla in three rounds, and Reno got the decision over McLaughlin in ten rounds. See this link.

[url]https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SDU18970717.2.69&e=-------en--20--1--txt-txIN--------1[/url]

As a side note, who exactly are the editors of box rec? This forum could help them out.

 

You can find old fight reports to suit any agenda,and I'm not suggesting you have one,but Pollack's biography of Jeffries gives us several reports of all his major battles,many of them differ in their interpretation,and not all of them are eye witness accounts ,just wire service writeups. If you seriously want to get a handle on Jeffries, you can do no better than buy his book ps Joe Cotton is probably George Kid Cotton,a sometime sparring partner of Jack Johnson's.
On the Choynski fight Jeffries said,"I did the forcing and landed the only knockdowns but Choynski deserved a lot of credit for his cleverness,I was satisfied."My Life & battles Jim Jeffries.
On the first Ruhlin fight .
The Chronicle said the referees draw decision was undoubtedly fair and just."
The Call & the Chronicle both criticized Jeffries and called him a one armed fighter.
The Examiner said Ruhlin was the cleverer and faster using straight lefts with speed and precision and noted that though Jeffries was a few pounds heavier he did not appear any stronger,being inferior in reach and a trifle slower in delivery" At the end of the19th rd the Chronicle thought Ruhlin ahead In the 20th rd he hit Jeffries a dozen times.However Jeffries kept right after him undaunted ,and eventually got the better of it"
The Bulletin said the decision satisfied the majority."

 

I post stuff I find sometimes. It sometimes gets changed, sometimes doesn't. They're definitely much more interested in active fighters (understandably)

I got them to change the result of the fight between Hart and Gardner, which previously showed a 12 round decision.
[url]https://boxrec.com/en/event/18617/27169[/url]

 

Based on what ? I guess one school of thought is the old timers had a natural strength based on lifetimes of hard work and living but I don't know how to claim with any confidence he was stronger than a Bruno or a Lewis or a Foreman or even close ..

 

Based on documented feats of his strength. Janitor told us about them multiple times.

 

Journalists in Jeffries camp documented his feats of strength.

They are as reliably recorded, as anything from that era can ever be.