Is John L. Sullivan a all time top ten heavyweight champion ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Mar 23, 2018.


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  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    With all the Sullivan talk here and the cases built for Janitor's Sullivan I'd like to hear how many here rate him as a top ten heavyweight champion. If so , say so .. if not , where ? Let's try to avoid snarky troll comments .. just your serious response.
     
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    #1
  2. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I'll start.

    No.
     
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    #2
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  3. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I dont want to become embroiled in a scrap between two otherwise excellent posters except to say, no I don't.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 23, 2018
    mattdonnellon, Mar 23, 2018
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  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I will do my best to keep this chill .. just trying to see who will make a definitive statement. I will not even question any who may say they do.
     
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    #4
  5. Gudetama

    Gudetama Active Member Full Member

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    Top 25 :)
     
    Gudetama, Mar 23, 2018
    Gudetama, Mar 23, 2018
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  6. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    No
     
    mrkoolkevin, Mar 23, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Mar 23, 2018
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  7. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Sullivan might make a decent UFC HW today, but otherwise he'd have trouble with Butterbean much less a ranked HW.

    I agree Sullivan has his place in the history of the sport.
     
    FrankinDallas, Mar 23, 2018
    FrankinDallas, Mar 23, 2018
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  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I agree and never claimed he was not a legend as well as a significant national icon.
     
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
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  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I say no
     
    robert ungurean, Mar 23, 2018
    robert ungurean, Mar 23, 2018
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  10. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    His name is in the book s for being the last last bare knuckle heavy champ, he was good enough for his time to be the main man ,but I can't see any evidence of him to be called a ATG .
     
    Fergy, Mar 23, 2018
    Fergy, Mar 23, 2018
    #10
  11. The Senator

    The Senator Active Member Full Member

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    I love reading about Sullivan and his era, and he's both an undeniably important figure in boxing history as well as a dominant champ in his own time, but I can't really place him in my all time HW top ten.

    Revel in my ignorance and bad taste:

    Senator's HW all time top ten(NOT H2H, NOT Favorite 10)
    1. Ali
    2. Louis
    3. Marciano
    4. Lewis
    5. Johnson
    6. Foreman
    7. Tyson
    8. Wlad
    9. Holmes
    10. Holyfield
     
    The Senator, Mar 23, 2018
    The Senator, Mar 23, 2018
    #11
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  12. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Historically yes, h2h, no.
    I would wager a prime Lenny Mclean would of taken him bare knuckle.
     
    BlackCloud, Mar 23, 2018
    BlackCloud, Mar 23, 2018
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  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Well, you'd have to set the parameters on how its judged.

    Successful title defenses, quality of opposition beaten, head to head the best guess, etc..

    I don't think Sullivan is near top 25 or even top 50 because he didn't beat anyone who historians would rate in the top ten two decades after he retired, let alone top 25-50 decades after he retired. He struggled a bit and failed to stop many guys a puncher should have in the mid to late 1880's

    Had Sullivan fought Slavin or Jackson and won, I'd view more favorably. His prime was very short.

    I continue to believe that Charlie Mitchell, a 5'9" middleweight type with just 9 KO's in 49 fights ( Box Rec data ) is his best-gloved boxing win.

    I think its best to put Sullivan on top as a pioneer of the sport, the bridge between Bareknuckle / LPR to Queensberry gloved rules and simply leave it at that. Even Sullivan himself said in 1907 that the game has changed and not much time has passed.
     
    Mendoza, Mar 23, 2018
    Mendoza, Mar 23, 2018
    #13
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  14. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I"m open to seeing him
    Agreed. Historically he's top Four .. Sullivan, Johnson, Louis, Ali .. H2H another item.
     
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    he grant, Mar 23, 2018
    #14
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    McLean couldn't beat Johnny Waldron, he isn't beating Sullivan.
     
    mcvey, Mar 23, 2018
    mcvey, Mar 23, 2018
    #15
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