Is Kostya Tszyu an ATG?

No.

Best wins? Judah and Mitchell?

Lost to Phillips and Hatton. No way is he an ATG, not even close.

 

No. He was a very skilled, but limited fighter style-wise, who would've lost to most ATG's, especially the pressure fighters. He could've given a few of them problems style-wise himself though. Overall though, his resume simply doesn't do it, not even close, and combined with the fact that I don't believe he had ATG skills(rather just very good) he simply doesn't crack ATG status for me, on any level.

 

Great fighter and a HOFer but his resume is embarrsingly overatted and is in no shape or form a legend but what exactly is a all time great ? Is it a guy that could be great in any era ? I believe Kostya in a fairly weak 140 divison historically could always be a top guy but gets raped vs Chavez,Pryor and Whitaker.

 

He's the #2 or #3 Light Welterweight of all time. That makes him an All Time Great in my book.

 

A little off topic, but how do you think Hatton deals with Judah in their current condition?

 

Kostya's greatest wins aren't exceptional, but he had a very strong resume overall, with a lot of top level fighters. As well as this, he defeated his opponents often times in emphatic fashion. For the people who point to his problems dealing with pressure, why then did he thoroughly beat Gonzalez and Chavez without trouble?? There were many issues before the Phillips fight, especially considering the MASSIVE amount of time he spent in court deliberating over his legal issues with Bill Mordy. Kostya when focuses was a brilliant fighter. Superb technical fighter, who had impeccable timing, was a fast combination puncher, and great power. Although he often times moved slowly, much like Miguel Cotto now, his speed was extremely deceptive. Against Hatton, he brought a terrible gameplan, and was troubled by the illegal tactics of Hatton. Imagine how Floyd would have fought if Joe Cortez had not have broken them up every 10 seconds???

 

Well Chavez by that time was shot. Gonzalez was not really a full on pressure fighter or a swarmer. He was more of a brawler or puncher. He traded with Tszyu in the middle of the ring, he didn't look to press him. In fact, most of the time it was Tszyu doing the coming forward. Gonzalez had neither the skills nor the physical attributes to effectively pressure Tszyu. Tszyu was a very skilled fighter, I'm not saying otherwise. He doesn't lose to every pressure fighter, but he certainly does lose to the ATG's if you ask me. He would fair better against the boxing types than the true top pressure fighters.

 

he lost to vince philips in his prime **** no he isn'tatsch

 

Fair post. I think he would have preformed better against pressure fighters earlier in his career rather then later however, as his foot movement and speed decreased significantly. The hatton fight wasn't as bad as some make out. It was a close fight, with absolutely dreadful ref: Dave Paris letting him get away with everything. How do you believe Floyd would have coped had the same level of Holding and illegal tactics been allowed? Floyd appeared to have trouble from stopping Hatton getting inside as well, especially in the earlier rounds.

 

That's the thing, I think Floyd is more adaptable than Tszyu ever was, so he'd have gotten into his groove at some point anyway, perhaps a bit later, perhaps the scores would've been a bit closer.

I too think Tszyu would not only have been better against pressure fighters early in his career, but was a better overall boxer in general. I think he actually downgraded into more of a puncher as his career progressed, rather than the skilled boxer-puncher of his early pro days and amateur career. Much more impressed by a younger Tszyu than the one who was at the height of his career accomplishment wise.

 

Tszyu was a great boxer as a pro and even greater as an amateur! Gold medalist.

Tszyu lost to Hatton in Hatton's home town, Hatton got by with illegal crap, Tszyu should have fought a rematch.

 

Not an ATG per say, but a mention in the best of his era's top 10. A 'great fighter'.

Does Sweet Pea agree with this?

 

Kostya Tszyu, to me, is in the same boat as Shane Mosley. Both fell short of all time greatness, but did enough to be remembered as greats.

He's one of the 5 best light welterweights of all time and can even be as high as 3

 

Of course he is