Is Kostya Tszyu ATG

Yeah ... Tszyu in my opinion is an all-time great ... 4-time world champion. He only lost 2 bouts, 1 early in his career and the second being his last fight to date. He unified the titles ... he beat Judah who later became the undisputed WW champion, he fight Mitchell who was WBA champ at one point in time. He beat Ruelas, Julio Cesar Chavez, Roger Mayweather, JJ Leja, and a few other solid fighters.

 

Good argument, any more words of wisdom!

 

Oh **** ... great point ... thanks

 

False, he held wins over Kelley, McCullough, and one of the best ever at 122 in Wilfredo Vazquez. He eventually failed against an ATG, which is better in my book than failing to a B level fighter with nothing special about him in Vince Phillips.

Hamed started at Flyweight, and was constantly moving up in weight, which is why he never unified. His peak skill-wise was not at Featherweight. Again, being found out by Barrera is different than being found out by a fighter like Vince Phillips.

I'll check into the bit about Tszyu and DLH.

As for your other points, you could easily make arguments for guys like Antonio Cervantes, Nicollino Locche, Duilio Loi, Barney Ross, Jack "Kid" Berg, etc over Tszyu. In fact, I would.

 

Not in my book, but a great fighter, no doubt

 

He's an ATG junior welter

 

I wasn't trying to be an internet thug ... I was just talking ****.

 

His best wins are over Zab Judah and Sharmba Mitchell, so NO. He dominated his division for a long while but, he has that slip up against Vince Phillips and as previously mentioned his resume sucks. He's similar to Hopkins in that they both dominated for so long and unified but Hopkins has those names that stand out, Trinidad, Tarver, De La Hoya (crap at the time). Tszyu has no one.

 

ATG skills, though his resume comes up a bit short. but he was a great fighter.

 

What stands out for me that Kostya had 260+ amateur fights (nearly all victories) before he turned Pro and IMO this reduced his 'prime period' during where any decent boxing observer could see that Tszyu had a unique special talents similar to that of alot of great fighters, the real problem here is he was stopped by Hatton outside of his prime and then never got to show his true potential and step up to the likes of DLH, Mosley, Floyd and others, and really stand out and be truly great in the minds of some, but for the rest of us it was pretty clear he was right up there with them anyway.

 

at 140 yes but top 50 of all time nope p4p hell no

 

This is an interesting discussion.

You have to look at Tszyu's career in detail to decide properly.

A few points in favour;
- His FOURTH pro fight he defeated former WBC Laporte. You won't find guys fighting this level of opposition this early.
- Fuentes went on to win a world championship after Tszyu, Brambles was a former world champ, Hernandez a strong contender who had just come off a fight with Chavez, and Tszyu was knocking these guys out at a stage where other fighters were still building up their records with fringe contenders
- Less than two years after turning pro, he defeated Rodriguez to win his first world title. Not the quickest world champion in history, but not far off.
- He beat an old mayweather, destroyed Mas, and then lost to Phillips in a fight he was winning on the cards at the time of the stoppage.
- Tszyu tuned up after this against former world champ Ruelas, before an entertaining fight with Hurtado who put Tszyu down twice before being stopped later.
- Tszyu then destroyed Gonzales, whose sole loss had been a decision to De La Hoya.
- Unification bought with title holder Mitchell, who people forget was considered one of the best fighters in the game at this time. Prime for prime, tszyu broke him down to capture second world title.
- Outpointed undefeated Urkal in a tough bout, then faced undefeated Judah in a fight where he was picked as the underdog, with many people saying they felt Tszyu had slowed down and was nearing the end of his prime. A second round knockout and he had unified the 140 division for the first time in decades (whatever it was)
- Put on a boxing clinic versus Tackie, beat a tough Leija in six (leija had just beat Mickey Ward) and during this fight torn a muscle in his shoulder
- Surgery on his shoulder, then tore his achilles and most people said his career was over. Surgery on his achilles and a rematch with Mitchell.
- Again, people remember Mitchell as a bum because of his late career performances, but he was considered the BEST 140 pound fighter in the world at this time. He was favoured to win the rematch, hadn't lost since the first Tszyu fight and hadn't been put on the canvas in ELEVEN years. Tszyu destroyed him in three rounds.
- In his last fight, he lost to Hatton.
- His destruction of fighters in their prime Gonzales, Mitchell, Judah in a manner unmatched by common opponents de la hoya and mayweather. Even Gatti's management released a letter at one point saying Gatti would quote 'Never fight Tszyu in this lifetime'. Comparatively they were willing to put their cashcow fighter in with Mayweather.
- You'll struggle to find someone else at 140 saying they've been hit harder. Post-fight interviews from opponents kept repeating the same thing 'I've never been hit so hard by anyone.'
- Associated with laser right hand, but I heard a commentator, might have been foreman, say Tszyu's hooking off the jab was one of the best punches you could hope to study, and often set up the right.
- Take into account what some people say is one of the best amateur career's in history, with Teddy Atlas and Chris Byrd saying an amateur Tszyu was the best boxer (not slugger, but skilled boxer) they'd ever seen, De La Hoya and Mosely saying a younger Tszyu was the boxer they enjoyed watching and you've got a guy who has peer admiration and respect.

Against;
- Never got the career defining fight he needed. People scan his resume looking for name recognition; he needed a de la hoya or mosely on there to cement his legacy. Tszyu blew his chance and has no one to blame but himself, De La Hoya was talked to before the Phillips fight and the Hatton fight. Losses derailed this fight.
- Didn't rematch Phillips. Despite people thinking Tszyu ducked him, you only have to look at interviews at the time and Tszyu mentions rematching Phillips often. Unfortunately Phillips lost the title after the Tszyu victory and Tszyu was offered another title shot against Hurtado/Gonzales.
- Lost to Hatton in a fight where he was a favourite with the promise of a superfight if victorious. This hurts Tszyu in that he picked a fight for money and the three rounds in three years caught up with him halfway through the fight. I won't go into the location, ref, low-blows and dodgy hug hit tactics.
- My opinion on his losses; the common perception is that he lost because of a problem with swarming fighters but I don't believe that. The phillips fight he was being sued by his promoter at the time and his trainer urged him to delay the fight, but Tszyu refused. Was winning on the cards and was told by his corner to box the last few rounds, but didn't. Kept trying to blow Phillips out with big rights and walked into more than he landed. It's a great, close war that he could have easily won. Hatton fight, I thought he showed during the middle rounds he had figured out Hatton but the right hand had gone missing and he gassed badly. As a final fight, criticised for finishing on his stool but I thought he showed something in this fight that is one of the rarest things in boxing; sportsmanship and grace in defeat. Never complained about the illegal tactics but applauded Hatton and quietly retired without a fuss. His own trainer said 'I was proud of him throughout all the victories, but even prouder of him in defeat today.'
- That said, he shouldn't have lost to either fighter. He is better than Phillips and Hatton, but defeated himself with arrogance, stupidity and inactivity. Two fights in his career he failed to make weight on the first attempt; Phillips and Hatton. Two fights his corner asked the same question during the actual fight 'Why are you fighting this way Tszyu?' No one to blame but himself.

Answer to the question : Yes, ATG.
Achieve his potential : No.

 

Of course he is an ATG, he ruled a very good, deep division for years. The lost to Phillips hurts him a bit. The one to Hatton is not as bad, but still while he did not beat a Benitez or peak Chavez, he will go down as one of the greatest 140 pound fighters ever, and he is one of the worst style matchups for Sweet Pea in history.

 

he definatly in a top 10 at 140 your a ****ing idiot maybe not aa atg p4p but at 140 head to head . your mother should be hunted down and dismembered for not aborting your mindless ass :hi: