Is Kostya Tszyu ATG

Exceptional analysis, i don't think we ever saw the best of Tszyu as a pro. What we did see is still enough to make him an ATG.

 

We've all heard this argument before. If you wish, we can go through it again.

Tszyu was great against southpaws, as he showed against guys like Judah and Mitchell, and a few others not on that level. If that's the case, Whitaker was great against orthodox boxers with a good straight right, such as Mayweather, Pendleton, etc. Who's to say who nullifies the other out? I'd say, based on the level they achieved against top competition, Whitaker was on a different level to Tszyu entirely, which gives him the edge in this matchup.

That's in a nutshell. Looking at it another way, Tszyu was great at landing his straight right on a southpaw because he was good at timing, and while decent fighters, Mitchell and Judah were nowhere near as good defensively as Whitaker. Nor did they have nearly as good a jab. Tszyu was a come-forward fighter who tried to walk you down and time you, which is especially hard to do against a fighter fighting off the backfoot, and there have never been any better than Whitaker. If you think at any point in the fight Tszyu lands a straight right, resulting in a flash knockdown, I don't mind. But if you think his open style leads to him not getting popped often with the jab, and Whitaker's ability to fight off the backfoot(as well as his amazing elusiveness) doesn't cause problems for Tszyu's come forward, timing style, where he needs to be within the right range to land solidly, then I would have to say you're missing something here.

Tszyu was not versatile enough for Whitaker. A strong right hand and a good track record against B and C level southpaws doesn't really prepare you for the best, slickest southpaw of all time. And again, the simple argument for Whitaker against guys with strong rights can come into play.

 

I never said he was a bum, he was a very good fighter, just not great, and he'd lose to most of the greats in head to head matchups the way I see it.

None of the afore-mentioned guys lost in their primes the way Tszyu did, though you'll undoubtedly argue Tyson and Lewis.

I'm not trying to argue Tyson right now, so I'll just say Lewis avenged his losses in devastating fashion. Tszyu wanted nothing to do with Phillips after that loss.

 

Did I say he would embarass Pea or even beat him? Damn, I say he is a bad styles match and you go off on how Mitchell and Judah are scrubs. I do know this if they both fought in their prime I would bet that Zoo is winning at least 4 rounds of this fight. This decision might even be a little controversal. All time greatness Zoo is nowhere near Pernell but the styles matchup is clear as day.

I would say if putting a gun to my head 8-4 Pea, with Pernell tasting a right in the 7th for a KD. 115-112

 

Not really, I just described the styles matchup. Do you dispute what I said? You could easily argue that Pernell is just as bad or worse a styles matchup for Tszyu as Tszyu is for Pernell. It's a myth that Tszyu's styles was bad for Pea IMO, simply because he was a southpaw. There's a lot more to this matchup than stance.

I think 3 or 4 rounds for Tszyu isn't out of the question, but you'd know clearly who was the better boxer.

 

Inaccurate again, a Phillips fight was going to happen in 1999 but Phillips lost to Millett and Tszyu went onto fight Gonzalez in August of that year. I could go back further with fighters who lost to b grade fighters, does anyone remember Antonio Becerra? ( Only man to beat Salvador Sanchez) Tom Bethea KO'd Nino Benvenuti , Billy Backus stopped Jose Napoles. Willy Wise!!!!

 

Great post.

For my money, his resume doesn't match his ability H2H. But resume isn't everything, even for ATGs.

 

Napoles was stopped due to a cut, nice try though.

Sanchez was what, 17 when he lost to Becerra? Benvenuti, first of all, was not a real ATG either, and was stopped by Bethea when past his prime.

Try naming them in their primes.

Innacurate again? When else have I been inaccurate? So he signed on to fight Phillips again, but Phillips was unable to beat a couple of bums because he was simply not that good a fighter. Good for him, still doesn't say much for Tszyu though.

 

people already have read some of the post..i dont feel like repeating someone else

 

Without a doubt. Losing to Phillips was a perfect case of an over-confident guy underestimating a very good, though not great fighter in Phillips and fighting the wrong fight.

As for the Hatton loss, it came at the twilight of his career and was really the result of horrible officiating and a brutal low blow that took the fight out of Tsyzu at the end.

Prime-for-prime, Tsyzu was CAPABLE of beating anyone at 140 as he could box, had tremendous power and was just an overall beast of a fighter.

 

I thought i did that with Tyson and Lewis! Vilomar Fernandez over Alexis Arguello 1978, Arguello an ATG? My point is Tszyu isn't the only great fighter to lose to someone he shouldn't have, big deal! He cameback from that loss to Phillips and beat the best there was at the time in his division and unify the the title. It's not his fault that DLH and Mosley skipped him altogether. In the end only age and injury really beat him.

 

Come on Freddy, when you all over JCC nuts you better say Tszyu is God when you compare opposition. :good

 

And would Bobby Young have had a chance against Kostya ?

 

The best three Jr Welterweights ever

Aaron Pryor
Julio Cesar Chavez
KOSTYA TSZYU

All of them ATG's