Is Kostya Tszyu legitimately a top 10 140 pounder of all time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sweet Pea, Aug 12, 2008.


  1. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I don't know if he is, though the case could be made. Based on resume I'd certainly rate at least 10 over him, and probably at least as many head to head. The case that can be made is that he was a natural 140 pounder and fought there his entire career, while certain fighters who'd have beaten him and beat better fighters at the weight were only there for stints. What say you?
     
  2. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Accomplishment wise, hell yes he's top 10. On who beats who? I dont think I can name 10 jnr welters that would beat a prime Tszyu, but I almost can. The following fighters that fought at 140 at least once would beat Tszyu:

    Pryor
    Chavez
    Cervantes
    Benitez
    Whitaker
    DLH
    Taylor
    Philips: Already did beat him.

    I'm undecided on whether or not Tszyu could beat McGirt, Randall, or Loche.

    Mosley & Duran would have both beaten Tszyu, but those guys by-passed 140 and went straight to 147.
     
  3. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'd pick PBF to beat Tszyu at 140. Duran fought at around 140 for some non-title bouts during his reign, I suppose you can say he fought at jr. welter as well.

    I'm not too sure about Taylor though, as he had a tendency to exchange too much. Tszyu was a big puncher, and harder hitter than Chavez IMO.
     
  4. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Based on resume, all of these guys beat better fighters, most would be favored over him head to head as well.

    Pryor
    Chavez
    Locche
    Loi
    Ortiz
    Ross
    Canzoneri
    Berg
    Cervantes
    Perkins
    Petrolle

    And to add to fighters who fought at 140 that could've beaten him head to head IMO:

    Napoles
    Benitez
    Taylor
    McGirt
    Ike Williams
    Mayweather
    etc.
     
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  5. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I only listed the fighters that Ive actually seen fight.

    Did Ortiz ever fight at 140?
     
  6. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Yup. I haven't seen every one of those fighters fight either, I was basing it on resume for the top group(I also said most would be favored head to head from the ones I've seen), and head to head for the bottom group, all of which I've seen.
     
  7. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah sorry I forgot about Floyd. He beats Tszyu also.

    If Duran counts, then hell yes! Duran-Tszyu would have been a complete and utter mismatch. Tszyu wouldnt see round 8.

    And I think that the Taylor that beat McGirt would do a number on Tszyu, but I can see where you're coming from.

    Adding to the list... I think the Arguello from the first Pryor fight stops Tszyu late.
     
  8. Brian123

    Brian123 ESB WORLD CHAMPION Full Member

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    Skill-wise, yes. Top 10 in my book.
     
  9. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Who do you have him beating out of just this list?

    Pryor
    Chavez
    Locche
    Loi
    Ortiz
    Ross
    Canzoneri
    Cervantes
    Napoles
    Benitez
    Taylor
    McGirt
    Williams
    Mayweather
     
  10. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I dont know about h2h, though i would have a go at a few analysis' (is that bad grammar?) if pushed. But imo the reason i rate him very high in the division's history is because i give much credit to guys being the best of their era, and for that short time when LWW was a good/very good division, he was a true champion. He has a top win (and i believe it was, at the time anyway) over Judah, 2 over Mitchell, the secnd impressive imo, the Tackie one was against a legit contender to his crown, somewhat of a masterclass imo. Obviously, all this doesnt add up to him being cemented in the top ten, and detractors can poiint out the Phillips fight, maybe rightly so, as he didnt have too many bouts overall. Still, he was a top class operator, and i do think that his period at the top was somewhat dominant, though that may be exaggerating in the views of some. I have him quite high in the list, but admittedly i give much credit to guys being the 'best of their era', maybe a flaw of mine, one i have been ammending imo in ceetain cases however.
     
  11. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    That would be one of the arguments I could see in his favor, the era by era one.
     
  12. Brian123

    Brian123 ESB WORLD CHAMPION Full Member

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    I take more into account that Tszyu fought exclusively at 140 more, some of these guys hardly fought a handfull of fights at 140.
     
  13. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you take account of overall performances at the weight, and consider h2h ability, skill, dominance, longevity and resume, you could probably sneak him down the bottom of a top 10 list.

    I do think a good 15 or so guys that moved through (or passed) the division would beat him though.

    Ross, McLarnin, Canzoneri, Chavez, Whitaker, Duran, DLH, Napoles, Pryor, Arguello, Ortiz, Williams, Cervantes, Graham, Benitez and Armstrong.

    I probably haven't seen enough of fighters like Leonard, Tendler, McFarland, Perkins, Blackburn, Gans, Holly, Montanez and Loi to really say how they would fare against Tszyu at 140.

    Probably the best fighters I would give Tszyu at least even chances against are Locche, Berg, Mayweather, Mosley, Taylor and McGirt.
     
  14. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I cant see Tszyu having even chances against Floyd, or Mosley. Esp not Mosley. If a prime Shane had moved from 135 to 140 and fought Tszyu, he'd have stopped him. I have no doubts. Shane was too fast, tough, and powerful at the lighter weights for Tszyu to handle.

    And Tszyu gives Floyd some tough moments, but ultimately Floyd would too fast, skilled, and smart for Tszyu. And in addition to his great defense, Floyd's chin was excellent.

    Now Locche, and Taylor are different stories. I give Tszyu a good chance against either of those guys, though I wouldnt favor him. Locche pitched a shut out vs a prime Cervantes in thier first fight, and Cervantes IMO was better than Tszyu.

    And Taylor, pre-Chavez, would have most likely been too fast and tough for Tszyu. On the night he beat McGirt, I have a tough time seeing Tszyu beating him.
     
  15. la-califa

    la-califa Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jekyl & Hyde. At times Kostya Tszyu would look utterly unbeatable then at other times look quite beatable... But in his prime on an "on' night few could match his speed,balance & devistating power. Kostya would take the hittable Taylor. His power would be the difference with Mosley, Mosley would land more but Tszyu would cause more damage & slow Mosley in the latter rounds.