Is Larry Holmes' handspeed underrated?

You say that as if Holmes wasn't very faded himself. He had much more in the tank of course winning an easy decision over Butterbean in his next fight which would be his last fight.

 

Holmes style and lack of wars enabled him to preserve himself better than Weaver.....Holmes was past prime but Weaver was a slow shell of himself and had been KO'd many times in fact in his prior fight to a guy who was KO'd in 3 strait and 4 out of his last five.....Weaver had zero left Holmes knew this going in

 

Yeah, we all know that Bum, but Holmes was always a class above Weaver, yet he just had an off night with a cold in '79.... Still, Holmes beat Weaver by TKO 2X.....

Holmes landed a bomb to Weaver's kisser in the rematch.... WICKED!

MR.BILL:hat

 

..... he looked like a fat 51-year-old 255 pound tub of **** to me.

 

and so he should have as they was Class B fighters

 

i don´t care about if it is underrated or not but joe louis and ali had by far faster hands than holmes and it is the truth. i think that tyson and patterson were faster too.

 

Wow it seems like you exaggerate or twist every competetive fight Larry was in and make it sound like he got a bunch of gifts... Of a those fights where you say Holmes got gifts id say the closest one was his fight with Carl Williams, i think i had Holmes by 1 point,but a draw would have been fair,, As for Witherspoon? Tough fight but Holmes won py about 3 points, and he was beating Smith not an iffy win by any stretch.. Its funny how you also twist Holmes losses around and act as if he was in his prime when he lost to these guys. Long lay off and old when he fought Tyson, Faded when he lost to Spinks, and still deserved the 2nd fight... As for Holyfield i thought a mid 40s Holmes did damn well, he actually was very competetive and gave Holmes trouble in a lot of rounds, that fight tells me right there that a prime Holmes would have outboxed Holyfield and gave him fits.. THe only reason Holyfield beat an old Holmes is because he threw more punches and outhustled Holmes, who wasnt able to be as busy as the prime Holyfield.. Holyfield won that fight on youth and because an old Holmes couldnt do what was working for a full a 12 round, Younger,faster,busier Larry would have had no problem keeping up that up for the whole fight and taking a clear decision over Holyfield.... As for Bowe well i think he would have gave Larry a tough fight, but he also had problems iwth BOxers, who had good jabs (see TUbbs fight) or with mobile guys. Check out a few of the rounds with Hide and Donald.... ANd neither of those guys were on HOlmes level...Both would give each other problems but isee Larry taking a close decision...

Exposed by Shavers? He was seriously hurt but made it thru and dominated the rest of the fight.. Shavers 2nd rate? HIs punch was as first rate as you could get.. WHat is so shameful about getting dropped and hurt by possibly the hardest puncher in the history of boxing? If anything it was impressive as he shook it off and outboxed him after.. He came back to stop Snipes and was leading at the time of the stoppage.. And after Bey had a good first few rounds against the aging Holmes , he picked up the pace and stopped Bey a few rounds later.

His fight with Norton was close.. Physically Holmes was peak, but he hadnt peaked yet and became more complete and hit his prime a year or 2 later. And no shame in that Norton turned back the clock that night and was a helluva fighter( just ask Ali)... I wonder what you think of Lewis? You talk about Larry being exposed for getting dropped even though he got up to take over the fight.... Lewis is a top 5 great to some hear but didnt even get up, and this was in his prime.

Using your logic i could pick apart any of the great Hws resume.

 

Well it's not like Holmes threw fast combos combinations ala Patterson, Ali, Tyson, Louis.

Holmes was obviously a fast heavyweight, don't really think it's under rated as I've never heard him called slow. It's just not something to be made too much of, he was a very fast heavyweight but not the fastest we've ever seen.

 

Larry's handspeed was underrated, but I've always felt he wasn't in the elite level of handspeed.Dokes and Page seemed faster at times.

 

I think Page had good footwork in his prime, handspeed too I think prime Tubbs had quicker hands.
Fastest hands out of fighters who held Hw titles. Film is not to good on fighters before Dempsey era.. Im sure Jack Johnson would be top 5.. And Corbett and Fitz would be on here but can only guess on them. I still got to see a little more of Haye, im thinking hes probably somewhere on the middle of this list.

Other guys
Jones
Ali - obvious
Patterson ^
Toney
Dokes
Tyson
Louis
Ellis
Michael Spinks
Tubbs
Tunney
Walcott
Charles
Byrd
Page
L Spinks
Louis
Holmes
Seldon
Fraizer
Holyfield
Dempsey
Douglas
Moorer
Schmeling
Witherspoon
Tucker
Wlad

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl page,spinks,dokes,ellis,tubbs... faster hands than joe louis? you are crazy crazy!!!

 

You know your probaby right... Some of those guys were faster with one shot and were quick on their feet and i let that cloud my judgement... As far as delivering power shots, Louis delivered much quicker and his only equal in that department might have just been Tyson.. That list was just for fun, i can see someone picking it apart... I think some of those HW were quick in different ways.. Like combos,Jabs,power punche.. Lateral and foot speed might have made some of these guys hand speed look quicker than it actually was... Some thru really fast wild punches from awkward angles (llike leon and sometimes Michael) and some just threw so many punches like Fraizer that he might have appeared faster than he really was.... Others had great timing but werent necesarily speed demons like Wlad,Witherspoon and a maybe a couple others on that list .

 

Ummm yeah. Bill said it better than I could.

 

Personally i think Greg Paige had the best jab,followed but Holmes.....the rest of the heavyweights are pretty far back from them especially when technique is taken in account...

 

I like Carl Williams jab better than Page's .. Just as fast and thrown with more authority.. Out of all of Holmes title defenses i think this is the closest one ,and felt the decision could have gone either way.

I was impresed that a guy with only 16 fights was outjabbing the great Holmes for long stretches. Too bad this guy had a week chin or he could have been the next great hw.


have you noticed how so many of the HWs from the 80s were already pretty damn good and already world class so early in their career? Carl Williams,Tim WItherspoon gave a still great Holmes(slightly on ther downside) all he wanted and his closest fights? Dokes,Tubbbs,Page ,THomas were all considered top guys real early. You dont see that anymoree, it usually takes forever nowdays to test these hws..

Im guessing cause some of these guys were amatuer stars alredy. And all were naturally talented.. That era was actually one of the most talented to a bad most were underachievers,Fatboys,Hot n cold fighters.