Is Larry Holmes

Floyd Patterson vs Pete Rademacher
Ali vs Spinks
Tyson vs Douglas

 

There are some valid criticisms in that post. And while it's true that he did take on some soft touches, failed to unify, and denied some rematches, his entire career can't be summed up that way..it wasn't until roughly 1983 that most of this occurred. But From 1978 To 1982 Larry Holmes accumulated 14 title fight wins which was more than most champions to that point could claim. And his opponents included Ken Norton, Earnie shavers, Mike Weaver, Trevor Berbick, Leon Spinks, Renaldo Snipes and Gerry C00ney. Say what you will about those guys but regardless of what one thinks, THAT was basically the heavyweight division from 78 to 82.. People slap him on the hand for trying to record pad his way to 49-0.. But by 82 he had already accumulated twice as many title fight wins as Marciano including wins over about 7 guys who were all better than don ****ell or Roland Lastsrza.. The fact that he fought on to 48-0 even if it wasn't against the division's best is extra credit in my eyes as was his comeback in his forties. He was stripped of his WBC title for ducking mandatory Greg page and questioned for not fighting pinklon Thomas.. Fair enough.. But how much better were those guys than James smith Tim Witherspoon or Carl Williams who Holmes fought right around that time frame? Probably not enough to place them in a higher category in my opinion.

 

Good point. The longer the reign the easier to take umbrage

 

As I said the criticisms are valid. But also commonly overstated while many components in comparisons with other champions are overlooked.. Both Holmes AND Marciano are guilty of record padding.. It just happened on different ends of their careers. Rocky didn't fight for the title until he was already around 42-0 and while he had beaten some good contenders along the way, there were certainly plenty of bums.. By the time Holmes was 42-0 he was already 15-0 in world title bouts and had beaten some of the best in the world.. By the time he began dodging mandatory challengers he was already past the age where rocky had retired.. He was also an aging champion fighting younger opponents and Marciano was a younger one fighting older challengers.. Larry also fought some damn BIG heavyweights, nearly all of whom were indigenous to the Division.. Not always the case with the rock... Saying that Holmes was a record padding paper champion while Marciano was an undisputed king is not so cut and dry when you look at this thing from all angles..

 

Indubitably.

 

Yes.

The all time worst pick is Sanchez picking Azumah Nelson.

 

Yes, he is among the worst. Holmes had the ability to beat anyone in history, but he really milked his title reign and had no pride whatsoever when it came to picking opponents. He looked for easy marks and then never gave rematches to guys who almost beat him. His reign was to me a long, drawn out exercise in tedium and I had no pity when Spinks finally beat him.

 

Yeah, it's bad luck on his part.
But then again, with Weaver, Witherspoon and Williams, it's perhaps lucky for his legacy that those guys are considered quite a lot better now than they were thought of going in to the fight.
Especailly Weaver and Witherspoon, who often get listed among his best wins and in the top 5 HWs of the entire era.

 

Goo, have another read of the opening post.

 

thanks bro.

 

Looking at it that way, he might have been better taking his chances with the current #1s!

 

You know I love the insight, never really thought of Holmes that way until I read this post, then I think back to T.Cobb, M.Frazier (who shouldn't have been on an undercard with a Holmes opponent , much less in the ring with Holmes). S.Frank , O.Occasio a good cruiser, Evangelista yeah your right, a lot of soft to very soft touches... But still when looking at the heavyweight div alone. Still would consider him one of the better heavyweight champs, and a A.T.G in that division.

 

Perhaps the rest of this post, calls the italicized part into question.

At least this is how many people saw it at the time.

 

Sugar Ray Robinson picked Ralph "Tiger" Jones (non-title).
Ray wouldn't rematch Jones for the title because at
his age, he didn't want another beating.