Is Lennox Lewis Overrated?

strongly disagree. how could the era be that tough when you have two 45 year old men beating top contenders and winning linear title.

Tyson was long gone an rusted by 1996, a shadow of his former self. Lennox fought the same holyfield who couldnt win a trilogy with john friggin ruiz!

future ring champ? so a win over a inactive 39 year old golfer makes you ring champion?

very good win

ruddock was ruined by mike tyson in previous fights

I love tua but dont ever compare him to mike tyson. Tua was more like Tony Galento, and i dont mean that disrespectfully. great win for lennox.

good win, lennox has an underated left hook, too bad stewart made him right hand crazy his whole career

Rahman knocked lennox out with 1 punch. very solid rematch knockout win over a good young champion who vitali ducked.

Tucker was considerable past his prime by 1993. he doesnt get anywhere near as much credit as tyson does IMO.

Mccall also knocked lennox out with 1 punch. Mccall entered this fight in no kind of mental state to fight, lennox did not make him cry....hell lennox couldnt even floor a crying mcall. i find it hard to give lennox credit for this victory.

Argueably lost this fight to an inconsistent 36 year old man coming off some bad performances

Probably the worst linear champ in HW history. got his linear title by getting one of the worst decisions ever against 47 year old man.

Grant had already got exposed as a fraud the fight before by mental wreck golota. but still dominating performance by lennox.

He was no world beater

 

I stopped reading your post once you said Tyson ruined Ruddock.

 

The fact that Holmes and Foreman were as successful as they were during their comebacks had more to do with boxing politics and creative matchmaking than it did a weak heavyweight era. Remember, Holmes and Foreman avoided the best fighters of the day. Holmes had one solid win over a legitimate top ten opponent in Mercer, and Mercer was one of the most beatable of the fighters at the time. Foreman didn't really beat anyone of note until his lucky win over weak-chinned Moorer.

The Lennox Lewis era was solid.

 

The good I see in Lewis:

- He was an amazing combination of an excellent boxing brain, gigantic physique, fundamentally correct and ample boxing skills and a tremendous punch. In these respects, yes, he embodied some of the best qualities of all-time greats and predominant heavyweights such as Ali (ring savvy, use of the jab), Carnera (mammoth size), Holmes (use of the jab and boxing skills), Foreman (devastating two-fisted power), Shavers (a bone-crunching right hand).

- He beat every man he faced in an era of steroid-inflated, but good, fighters who were skilled, powerful, dangerous and as hungry as any other generation. He came out on top, with flying colors.

- He was a dignified champion.

What personally still does not allow me to fully embrace Lewis:

- I suspect he was pumped up by steroids, based on how skinny he looked near 20 years of age in that picture with Tyson, even when he had been a boxer for several years. I realize many today don't seem to care about this, but I believe it is important in comparing generations. I am certain powerful George Foreman did not juice up, so in a dream match against Lewis, I just don't like the idea that Lewis may have had an unfair benefit, if indeed he, as has been par for the course for his time, used performance enhancers.

- As an older contemporary of Mike Tyson who sparred early on with him under the eye of prophet Cus D'Amato, he chose to lie low until Tyson self-destructed. I love a guy who stands up to a challenge; the challenge was there when Tyson conquered the world, but Lewis chose instead to continue as an amateur and make a second trip to the Olympics.

- The Holyfield he defeated was in retrospect shopworn at 36, after a successful full career as a cruiserweight, and having had another successful full career as a heavy, which included a trilogy with Riddick Bowe and the two fights with Tyson. It seemed a younger Holy could pressure and take Lewis.

- Sometimes envisioning a peak Lewis is like the elusive task of envisioning the ideal woman: Marilyn Monroe's unique allure coupled with Marie Curie's brains or Hillary Clinton's drive; not likely. When Lewis was at his youthful, physical peak, he was quite vulnerable due to key holes in his style which McCall capitalized on with a vengeance and humble fighters like Frank Bruno made to look ordinary. He was around 28 when he hooked up with Emmanuel Steward, who vastly improved his technique and overall proficiency. In fact, I see the next few years, 1995 to 2000 as his prime, a quite lengthy and very solid period at that. But he obviously had to have lost a step or so in pure youthful athleticism during this time, which would count against him in dream matches against a brimming Foreman, Tyson or Ali, who naturally peaked in the prime of their youth.

In my book, because of steroids, I see greats as of Holyfield along with an asterisk. Great for their time, but with a perhaps unfair advantage with respect to their predecessors. And, even so, I still see both Lewis and Holy in the second tier of my all-time top ten, simply because I continue to see those forerunners, on film, as still a cut above.

 

Foreman fought exclusively journeymen or washed up ex-contenders and then was gifted not one, not two but three title shots based on popularity. After that, he fought mediocre opponents, struggled and had to rely on gift decisions to retain his bogus title.

Holmes took the honest route though, he deserves credit for that.

Still, i don't think it is such a big hit against the 90's. Leon Spinks was linear champ in the great 70's. Just saying.

And how can you be certain Foreman did not use them? Steroids were around in the 70's too and Foreman was a huge hitter with weak stamina. Lewis never failed a test and that pic with Tyson was when he was 16, not 20. Most of it was bulk anyway, not muscle a la Holyfield; fighters always start putting on pounds when they get past the age of 30.

I can certainly understand your suspicion of him using, but i don't see why Foreman escapes that same unproven suspicion.

 

Not hard at all. In 1991, the top heavyweights at the time were the big four: Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Razor Ruddock, and Mike Tyson. Guys like Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrison, and Bruce Seldon occupied a lower rung.

Ray Mercer, in the few fights prior to facing Holmes, struggled against Bert Cooper, was totally outboxed by Francesco Damiani before landing a punch that broke Damiani's nose, and lost the first three rounds against Morrison - during which Mercer took a beating - before rallying back to stop the gassed out Morrison.

Ray Mercer was not viewed as a major league elite heavyweight at the time. Try and spin it as you may, but that's the truth.

Larry Holmes picked the "contender" that was the most beatable for him on the basis of styles. Even Larry himself said before the fight that Mercer was made to order for his style. Holmes didn't want anything to do with Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe or Razor Ruddock. Regardless of Mercer's ranking at the time of the Holmes fight, he was not viewed as being as skilled as the other big name guys. And we all know the ranking system isn't always based on a fighters merit or ability.

I believe that Ray Mercer improved as a fighter as he aged - against Holyfield and Lewis he actually showed a consistent jab and high work rate, something the plodding and slow Mercer didn't show against Holmes.

And Foreman? Come on....At least Holmes beat a "decent" contender in Mercer. Foreman didn't do anything up to the Holyfield fight - and that includes his wins over Cooney and Rodriguez.

So, I don't get how the "achievements" of two forty-something ex-champions is in any way reflective of the strength of the overall heavyweight division at the time.

 

Foreman had no credentials going into the Holyfield fight. It was a gimmick fight, pure and simple. I know Foreman's not the only guy that ever received a title shot for fighting nobodies, but it was what it was. He was smart. George wanted to become a millionaire again after losing all of his money from his first career. So, he wanted to ensure that he remained unscathed so that he could land a big money fight for the title. And he did. He wasn't about to let any competition stand in his way of winning the lottery.

 

Like Sweet Dude......I am just stating my opinion. Marciano ruined rex layne, mike tyson ruined razor ruddock, Joe Louis ruined Max Schmeling, etc etc

 

I agree with most of what was said. I do disagree that Lewis "juiced up" without any proof of such. Certainly during his olympic run he would have been tested. Afterwards, who knows, I know I've gained weighted during my 30's and into my 40's with using steriods, it's simply natural. As for Lewis' olympic run, I'm certainly not going to count that against him either. Fighters when they're in their teens and early 20's often focus on the Olympics, and in fact, likely have dreamt about getting a gold metal for years and years. Hell, had Tyson made the US olympic team, he too may have stayed an amateur far longer than he did. I doubt very much Lewis regrets winning a olympic gold metal. At at the time, it looked like Tyson was going to stay on top a lot longer than he did, so this is simply thinking things in hindsight.

 

You can say what you want, but it's all subjective..far too subjective in my mind. Ruddock went on to win the next two fights and won 13 out of 15 after fighting Tyson, so how exactly did his two losses ruin him? All you're doing is denying Lewis his dues for blowing him out, and rather than accept that that's what happened, you're attempting to discredit Lewis by saying Ruddock was already ruined, without a shred of evidence to support such a claim.

And that's my opinion, on your opinion.

 

Top 4-6 for me. If Lewis had a better chin, you could argue one.

 

A simple common sense call. Foreman was a naturally big youth at 6'1", 185 lbs at age 16. Lewis seems to fit the pattern of his time, guys hitting 30 and suddenly becoming better athletes, with better, more powerful physiques, who continue to compete successfully at the world class level nearly into their 40s.

I had not read what was being said simultaneously concerning Lewis and steroids in another thread, so I am not alone in simply suspecting that the heavyweight champ might have followed suit with what had become a pervasive action all over the world. Remember what the Russian said back in 1985: "Draaahgo is a loook at the fyoochuh."

And I said Lewis was around 20 in the pic.