Is Lennox Lewis Overrated?

I dont think that is a good arguement considering 14 of those last fights took place against club fighters in the late 1990s. Razor Ruddock took a long layoff and was never a contender again after tyson got through with him.



I think Ruddock in his prime finished the job on morrison in round 1

 

I had a ring magazine razor ruddock interview, let me find it. He talked about how he was not the same after the tyson fights, i forget what he said let me see if i can find it

 

I assume you meant you have added bulk over the years without steroids, as have I. In fact, my tuna fish breakfast diet and my boxing workouts have done wonders for me as I have hit 40, and I have much more good bulk than I ever did at 20. The difference is at 20 years old I did nothing strenuous physically, as I was not an athlete. But in that pic with young Tyson, I would say Lewis looks quite naturally gangly for a guy who had hit the gym for some years already. Just my common sense appreciation, considering the long-lived powerhouse he became.

And Lewis' second Olympic trip is simply a pet peeve of mine, because I can't relate to putting myself in Lewis' big shoes, having sparred with the future heavyweight champion of the world, who was causing huge waves for boxing all over the planet with his exciting style and sensational knockouts, having been prophesied to by none other than Cus D'Amato about one day facing this king, and, in the prime of my youth and dreams, choose instead to put in another few years to try to make a second attempt at getting a gold medal. Perhaps, as was always Lewis' chess style, he decided to take the safer route.

 

There is a huge difference between around 20 and 16 years old; you gain a lot of muscle during that period.

Foreman was 6'1 185lbs when he was 16, so what? Lewis was 6'5 and around the same weight at that age. He was always a big dude.

Sorry but i think this is hogwash. Typical hindsight argument.


It's important to realise how things were at that time, because that's when the decisions being made.

1984: Tyson twice failed to qualify for the olympics, Lewis got in. Lewis eventually lost a controversial decision to Biggs and finished outside of the top3. Soon after that he decided to continue the biggest amateur price there is.
Where was Tyson at the moment Lewis decided this? Probably crying at home with his pigeons because he lost, and turned pro. In the meanwhile, Lewis kept increasing his amateur experience in anticipation to the next olympics. Tyson was on top of the world in the pro's while Lewis won all his olympic fights on stoppage inside 2 rounds, including against Bowe, enroute to his long yearned gold medal. Right after that, he turned pro.



Sorry but i think it's rather delusional to say "I love a guy who stands up to a challenge" in a critical way with regards to Lewis. Tyson became undisputed world champion in 1987, one year away from the next olympics. So according to you, Lewis should've said "**** it! i've trained three more years after the olympic loss and only one year to go for the next, but Tyson is pro champ now, so i'd better turn pro really quick and hope to be in the picture before James dusts him!" ?

That's just plain ridiculous. He had his goal and whatever was happening in the pro's had zero to do with it. In fact, Lennox turned pro immediatly after the olympics. At the time, Tyson was considered invincible and no one thought he'd lose any time soon, so given that information and your train of thoughts, shouldn't Lewis have waited a few more years untill Tyson lost so that he safely could turn pro ?




Speaking about "I love a guy who wants a challenge", remind me again who dropped his WBC belt to avoid Lewis (the mandatory challenger) to face world beater Seldon? Hint: it wasn't Lewis. Lewis took all dangerous fight (Ruddock, Golota, Grant, Klitschko) when there were easier ways. Your "i love a guy who wants a challenge" criticism of Lewis is ridiculous.

 

You're missing the timeline and pretend asif people had a magic glass ball to know what Tyson and Lewis went on to do. Refer to my post above.

 

To answer the question: No. He met and defeated just about all the top HWs for a ten year period. That's not too many who can match that. Holyfield, Tyson, Frazier, Foreman and Liston can't to name a couple. He had two bad losses, but avenged them in style. Sometimes he looked lazy and sloppy, but he has some really great perfomances as well. He looked very, very impressive at times. I have him at 6, but an argument can probably be made to place him higher, while I can't really see him lower than that.

 

1. None of the 40 crowd could compete with the top 5 in the division
2. Tyson was past his best but still excellent, Holyfield clearly went down hill after the Lewis fights. Maybe Lewis finally ruined Holy
3. A win over Vitali near his 38th birthday is excellent. Vitali would become ring champ, that is a fact. Vitali was the air apparent and a tough match up for any champ in history.
4. Tyson couldnt KO Rudduck, Lewis did it in 2. There is no evidense that Rudduck was ruined and most fighters arent ruined when they go the distance
5. Tua is 1 of the devastating punchers ever and is leagues above Galento
6. Lewis was 34, past prime, undertrained and fighting at high altitude without adjusting to the environment. Rahman flew in before to get adjusted to the altitude, Lewis did not. Actually Rahman landed many rights before the KO punch but Lewis was clearly gassed because of the altitude.
7. Tucker was past prime but was still good and Lewis dominated impressively
8. McCall never KO'd Lewis the ref stopped it, it was a massive shot. Lennox got up and wasnt anymore out of it than Ali was against Cooper or Holmes was against shavers. Lennox wasnt given the chance to recover
9. Lewis easily won 6 of the 10 rounds against Mercer. Lewis fought a silly fight but still won
10. Briggs was still a prime contender, massive puncher, good combination puncher and would be a future belt holder past his prime
11. Grant was exposed a little but beating Golota was a good win and he showed a big heart in that 1. He certainly wasnt shown to be a fraud
12. Mason was a top 5 contender for good reason. He was 35-0, with 32KOs, looking impressive against Biggs, Tills and domestic british class. Very impressive win over a top contender in his 14th pro fight

 

More like Lewis is underrated but I'm not suprised at this forum's underrating of greats. Tyson beating Holmes was one of the most funniest, moronic and immature things that i have ever heard of.

 

Excuse me. The steroid use must have gone to my head.

 

Its silly to say Ruddock was ruined IMO.

Lewis is top 10 sure, its subjective if u have him in top 5 but definately argualble

 

With many historians ranking him beneath fighters like Gene Tunney I really cant say that he is over rated.

I think his suporters pitch it closer to the truth than his detractors sincere and otherwise.

 

... and yet he kicked your boy Tyson's ass well and truely. :hey


Lewis definitely belongs in the Top 10 in my opinion: regarding fundamentals, in terms of his head-to-head rating and the overall depth to his career record. I have him at #4 overall. :good

 

He has great skills, speed & power for a big man. But being Kayoed in his prime like that, is inexusible for elite status. Against relativly ordinary opposition.

 

A couple of your stats seem a bit disingenuous, so I'll start with those: you have said Lewis was 16 in his pic with Tyson, without quoting a source. The point is not essential, but, according to USA Today (June 3, 2002, Lewis vs. Tyson: The Prequel), Lewis was 18 and Tyson 17 when D'Amato invited Lewis, the 1983 Santo Domingo junior world champ to spar with his pupil in Catskill. This must have been the time the pic was taken. I originally said Lewis was around 20, and my educated guess was pretty much on mark (Lewis' birthdate: Sept. 2, 1965; week of sparring at Catskill: April 1984; Lewis' age: 18 years, 7 months.) Regardless, my point has been Lewis, Holyfield and other contemporaries, seemed to have magically morphed into He-Man-type fighters, well after the time a human male stops growing, particularly when compared to their own, scrawnier selves deep into their early careers. Just a common sense observation, again, considering that steroids for years now have become pervasively available. I have judgment and eyes and I intend to use them.

Two: you will not get away with saying Tyson became champ in 1987. Of course he destroyed Berbick in November 1986, but he had been creating waves among the heavyweight ranks since his debut in March 1985. The Olympics ended Aug. 12, 1984. When Tyson, Lewis' former sparring partner, became champ in '86, Lewis had had ample time to weigh his future. Both men had sufferred disappointments en route to a gold medal in '84, as many, many amateurs before and after, but in the free world it is quite normal to turn pro after a trip to the Olympics, regardless of results, simply because that is the natural next step. Even Bowe said to Lewis after their '88 Seoul final, "See you in the pros." Strangely, Lewis opted to prepare for a second Olympic trip, all the while watching Tyson climb the ranks, become a celebrity and win the title, all 22 full months before the '88 Olympics. Lewis preferred to continue to fight amateurs, though older than Tyson. The simple fact is Lewis would not have been prepared to face Tyson at that time.

Even a bull elephant or lion will sense the presence of a challenger to his place as king of the herd or pride. The boxing world is not that large. Lewis and Tyson were young lions and knew of each other. Tyson charged out to become king. Lewis, the older of the two, preferred to watch him rule the pride while turning away to fight cubs. Again, this is my personal view; I have never said otherwise. But I know that some men will dally and pretend a lion isn't there in the room and others will rise up and vanquish it.