Is Lennox Lewis Overrated?

Some flaws to your argument Sizzle are
1. Bowe was never going to face Lewis whatever the reason

2 Rahman's defeat of lewis wasn't one punch he was getting tagged all night with that right, lewis was certainly not prepared, we saw the real Lewis in the next fight.

3 McCall knockout of Lewis is controversial he seemed able to continue to most people.

4 Klitschko was a tough fight for Lewis but he defenitely came back it is not unusual for a fighter to win the first couple of rounds it is the fighter who applies pressure the whole fight and Lewis was applying pressure when the fight was stopped, that said he also wasn't in shape where Klitschko was so it was a dangerous fight.

 

Punchy,
1. That isn't true. He didn't want to fight him for his mandatory because Lewis was a dangerous opponent, and in a sport like boxing where your career is so short (especially true of Bowe) you have to milk the financial aspect for all it's worth. He was set to fight the winner of McCall Vs Lewis, I think Bowe was realistically THE NUMBER ONE heavyweight at the time (aside from Lewis himself)
Even if you disagree, there is no evidence to suggest Bowe was at all times categorically unwilling to fight Lewis.

2. Okay you have a point Rahman was tagging Lewis with hard shots all throughout the fight - But it looked to me as though it was that particular right hand punch on its own that stripped Lewis of his senses, not the accumulation - This is debatable, but Lewis was hardly groggy at the time, and whatever the case he was stopped early.

3. I've seen much worse stoppages, Lewis looked like he smoked the worlds supply of marijuana.

4. I'd have to disagree, while Lewis had his moments, it looked to me as though on the whole Klitschko had the better of the fight and there's no doubt in my mind he would've stopped Lewis. But like I said, I consider this version of Vitali the best opponent Lewis fought and he did win the fight so credit to him - Just a shame he didn't do it more emphatically.

 

lennox was overweight out of shape and far past his prime when he took on vitali too

 

Given this was not Lewis at his sharpest - But do you agree this version of Vitali was the best fighter he faced during his career? Or would you say Holyfield, Mercer or someone else?

 

It's only one agrument in favour of Lewis. Besides, Marciano and Dempsey aside, who else achieved this?

One of those KO's Lewis was denied the chance that say Holmes had against Shavers. It may have resulted in Lewis being smashed against the ropes and stopped anyway but the point is Lewis never got the chance. He was reigning Heavyweight Champion of the World. He should have gotten the chance that being the champion should afford.

The other KO Lewis had taken a few hard punches to the head before the KO and hadn't gone down. I would contend that it was as much exhaustion as it was lack of chin sturdiness that led to that stoppage of Lewis. No excuses there though. Lewis came in out-of-shape and paid the price.

Look, Bowe threw away the WBC Heavyweight Championship rather than defend against Lewis. That says it all to me. The money argument doesn't hold any water.

Well that was the win against the best opponent he faced, which was a clear win whatever Boxrec says. I believe he won against Mercer so where do we stand now? Lewis allowed Mercer to fight his fight which is the reason why he had so much trouble with him. Which is really my point. Lewis controlled almost every fight he was in by either imposing his own style or allowing the other fighter to impose his. Lewis almost always dictated how the fight would go, almost never the other guy.

Based on what? His record? His potential? His size? The fact of the matter is that Kiltschko did not beat a Lewis who was possibly more out of shape than for the first Rahman fight. The Lewis who had showed up against Rahman in their 2nd fight would have had IMO a far easier time.

No, this is the same version of Tyson who beat Andrew Golota and Brian Neilsen. Tyson did not fight McBride until 3 years later, after Lewis had damaged him beyond repair.

If any genuine bomber stands a chance of knocking out a peak Lewis, why did only 2 manage the feat in 14 years? Tua, Bruno, Tyson, Ruddock, Klitshcko, Morrison (and there are more) are all genuine bombers but none of these fighters was able to defeat Lewis.

Scraping in? He makes it with ease IMO.

 

1 Obviously it is a matter of opinion but Bowe was the only top heavyweight that Lewis didn't face, I really don't think anyone wanted to face him at least until McCall showed he was vulnerable.
2 well I agree with you here it was that punch that did damage but he did get tagged before and tehy would have had some effect on him.
3 just had a look at this stoppage Lewis was groggy but should have been allowed to continue he certainly recovered his senses quickly when the ref stopped it.
4 Klitschko won the early rounds but lewis came back and a couple of times had VK in real trouble, this was Lewis's last fight but I disagree VK would have knocked him out if he hadn't been cut. A tough fight for Lewis whether because of age or the quality of VK or a combination of both.

 

agreed

 

If this is true, which is the first ive ever heard of it why didnt bowe fight Mccall ?

Mccall went on to fight bruno and lost on a ud, and the winner of this fight had to fight tyson in there next deffence. As stated by bruno in his book when he signed to fight mccall he had to also sign to fight tyson should he win for his 1st deffense.

Also Bowe was already going to be fighting herbie hide for the wbo strap, chicken bowe never wanted any part of lewis in the pro ranks.

Why go into litteral retirement after getting those 2 very lucky d/q win against golota, he was

 

There actually is an article on eastsideboxing which outlines the matter, Look through the archives you will find it. It's been mentioned several times that if Lewis had defeated McCall his next fight was scheduled to be Riddick Bowe.

 

1. Plenty have achieved it. Hell, Sven Ottke achieved it. It doesn't mean ****.

2. You think Lewis lost the fight due to EXHAUSTION? C'mon man, we're trying to have a serious argument here, that is something I'd expect to see on the general forum.

3. The money argument makes perfect financial sense. Most decisions fighters are advised to make, or ultimately make, are for financial reasons. Anyway it's not that relevant, noone is claiming Lewis ducked Bowe.

4. Lewis was a good ring general, yes. I never disputed that. However for Mercer craftily coming forward on the frontfoot behind the jab Lewis was not able to dictate the pace of the fight.

5. We will have to disagree on the Tyson point. He was well and truly shot. Not on the slide, not out of shape, just well and truly shot. I wouldn't consider that one of Lewis' top5 scalps.

6. Makes it with ease in YOUR OPINION, but not in the opinion of a shitload of experts who don't include him in the top10. Likewise in mine.

 

It really boils down to a matter of personal perception where one rates Lewis against the other greats. Personally I give a lot of credit to the higher standards of toughness required in the earlier eras, so few modern fighters have accomplished enough to displace old-timers from the top 10.

 

So, having the distinction of having beaten every fighter you ever faced doesn't mean ****? Ha, I'd like you to say that to those fighters who have managed said feat with a straight face. Besides, when you've earned that distinction having faced almost every major contender over a 14 year period, much of it at the top, it certainly means something.

I like your selective reading on what I posted. If you scroll back up you'll see I said as much to exhaustion, not just because of exhaustion. There is a difference. Foreman was stopped against Ali in the 8th round basically because of exhaustion and nobody questions Big George's chin as a result. I'm not saying Lewis's loss was quite in that same category but exhaustion undoubtedly played a part. Lewis was gassed by round 5. If you recall the fight was at altitude, which certainly has a large bearing if you don't acclimatise correctly. Lewis, of course, has no-one but himself to blame for that, and the loss.

You stated that Lewis missed out on fighting Bowe because he lost to McCall. I say that Lewis missed out on fighting Bowe because Riddock ducked him. So yes, it's relevant.

I give Mercer a lot of credit in that fight and he fought with a very good gameplan. However, Lewis aided in that but allowing himself to get sucked into Mercer's fight.

He was certainly not the Tyson of old or even 1996 but he could stil punch very hard. You did state that any genuine bomber stood a chance of defeating Lewis so surely one of the hardest heavyweight punchers of the last 20 years stood a chance, no? Also, Tyson paid Lewis $4 million step aside money in 1996 so that Tyson wouldn't have to defend against him. And because Holyfield was perceived as being shot and having no chance.

Well so far you haven't given much of an argument why Lewis isn't in the Top 10.

 

Verry logical.

 

King had already made up Tyson's course.

It was either take the 4 million to step aside, or not take the 4 million.... and still not get the fight.

 

Top three is definitely overrating Lennox. I think you definitely can make a case for him as top 10 or 12. He fought everybody he possibly could during his career. Bowe ducked him, so not fighting him wasn't his fault. Foreman and Moorer didn't want to face him either. Otherwise, his resume looks pretty damn good. Gary Mason, Mike Weaver, Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker,Frank Bruno, Oliver McCall, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Andrew Golota, Michael Grant, Henry Akinwande, Shannon Briggs, Frans Botha, Evander Holyfield,David Tua, Mike Tyson , Hasim Rahman, and Vitali Klitchko. Alot of good names he beat. He avenged both his losses. I feel the first McCall fight was a bull**** stoppage anyway, and had it continued , Lennox would have won a decision.
Getting back to his legacy and all time status, Lennox was definitely one of the better heavyweight champs in history. Strong, great right hand, stiff jab, very big and powerful and was by no means slow . Chin was not granite, but not totally made of glass though. Won alot of big fights, was pretty clutch when it came to the big moment.
Adding everything into account, I wouldn't put him ahead of Ali, young Foreman,Joe Louis, Holmes, Marciano, or even Jack Johnson, but ahead of guys like Patterson,Norton,Douglas,Holyfield,and Moorer.