Is Lennox Lewis the most skilled "giant" in boxing history?

I mean I can only disagree with this as forcefully as possible while remaining polite and keeping the Molotov cocktails unlit.

Why don't you give me an example and fighter of a technical shortfall in a fighter that could be said not to matter at all?

...come on CT, that's crazy talk. You don't agree that if he was an expert body-puncher he would have had a better chance to beat Anthony Joshua? You don't agree that if he was an elite counter-puncher he would have had a chance to get Brewster out before he got blasted out?

How can you say that and expect me to take it seriously?

 

That's ridiculous! CT, this is silly now. LL famously lost a huge fight due to the indiscipline coming off the ropes against against Hasim Rahman. If he comes out of the ropes dipping off centre in a high guard before throwing a right hand, you can't see the value of that?

It's a joke now.

It's even the exact - exact - sort of position where a sometime-user of that technique would use it. Temporarily out of control coming off the ropes, hands up, dip at the waist, seek to counter. I mean you can ****ing SEE it.

https://makeagif.com/gif/hasim-rahman-knocks-out-lennox-lewis-FRH2rc

This is literally the best example of where an out of pocket technique of choice actually WOULD help a fighter least likely to be associated with that style, there are probably dozens of examples in fighting where a fighter can use even these weird anti-style techniques to their benefits, but this is one of the most obvious in history.

Just bizarre really. Bizarre how these conversations always seem to go.

 

Right, but even as they get bigger, they have relative value in terms of the broadest skillsets. Riddick Bowe is the most skilled superheavy, and people know that on some level, mostly, that he was brilliant but let himself down in other areas. If he's not allowable (people don't seem to think he's big enough sometimes) it gets very close very quickly.

It should be obvious by now that the deficiencies are just never going to be irrelevant. That's a fantasy and I can't see how it benefits anyone perpetrating it.

Mastery isn't just about versatility of skills - of course not, I haven't said so. It's about the depth and effectiveness of those skills. Of course it is. But you and I have entirely agreed that where depth is equal, the fighter with the broader skillset is more skilled.

Haven't we?

 

He's very skilled but as we saw against Chisora his high skill level is compromised a bit by the size problem. Obviously the bigger the opponent the tougher controlling them on the inside gets. I love Usyk's smothering though and I think he's an excellent example of doing it more offensively.

 

Do you think being really good at peek-a-boo, i see you, might have helped Lennox Lewis in that specific situation? Or you can't agree?

Where exactly did "stylistic quirk" come from??

I think that knowing and using techniques of fighting will benefit fighters generally, yes. I don't see that as controversial or strange or "are you really?" territory. But being honest I was ready to be presented with something that might be an example of technical redundancy to a certain style - it was just a little shocking to me to run into one where a very obvious practical use is entirely apparent in the most infamous moment of the selected fighter's career. It makes the thing feel like a waste of my time.

It kind of underlines my point rather than yours.

 

No, of course he doesn't.

Shockingly, I didn't make that claim.

 

It was YOUR example.

 

Yes.

And I asked you if you thought that knowing those specific techniques might have helped Lewis in that specific situation. You answered that:

"Lennox does not need to learn peekaboo to slip a right hand."

Which is an absolutely ridiculous response. -

You know full well i'm not saying Lennox Lewis needs to learn that technique to slip a right hand. Get out of here with that garbage.

You know what i'm asking you if knowing a specific skill which calls for you to dip out of a charge - for example off the ropes - might have helped him in a situation where he charged off the ropes and got poleaxed by a right hand that he could have avoided using that specific technique.

It's entirely obvious he could have benefited. Maybe not - but using that specific technique is obviously one that might work in that specific situation.

You know all this, so answered a different question.

At that point it's juts a waste of my time.

 

That's true, but you said that Lennox Lewis learning the peekaboo style might have benefitted him in that specific situation. I say so, because it is a technique whereby the fighter takes himself off the centre line when moving forwards specifically to ditch straight punches from the opponent. Lewis was moving forwards in such a fashion and undertaking the moves taught in that technique might have helped him in that situation. You can say "no, I don't think there is any way that technique could have helped him in that situation" or you might prefer to say "having reflected upon it, dipping off the ropes in the peekaboo fashion and trying for the counter might have helped Lewis a lot in that moment." You don't have to reprint your "original statement." Just answer. If you think there is no way it would have helped him to know those moves, say so.

Yes, I know that. You can slip it in one of a dozen ways. One of them is peekaboo. The one under discussion is peekaboo. This in no way precludes Lewis using any and all other techniques to avoid a right hand, BUT given the details of the technique it seems especially relevant in the circumstances.

Allowing that Lennox Lewis does not have to learn this specific technique to drop a right hand Acknowledging that fact. It still seems relevant to ask. Do you think knowing and being familiar with those techniques having practiced them, for example, since he met Tyson and Cus years before he turned professional, he might have benefitted from knowing those techniques in that moment?

And you can answer, if you want. Or, you can continue to pretend that i'm saying that it's the only possible way that Lewis could ditch a right hand and answer that made up question instead.

Thank you. Thank you for that.

Sadly for both of us, handling people who are being both obtuse and wrong is one of my hobbies.

 

You can learn a technique with "adopting" it. So for example, you might learn the Philly shell, but find that it doesn't merge with your maturing style particularly. Against an opponent that wants to jab for your chest and has been doing well with that move throughout the first two rounds, you might return to it for a spell in order to neutralise the opponent. It might work, it might not, but you have to know it to have the opportunity to deploy it.