Is Lennox Lewis the most skilled "giant" in boxing history?

I like the fact the mods on here engage.

 

But you can't compare them to lighter fighters in terms of skill only with fighters of their own size I would say. About Bowe, leaving out his inconsistency, I think he had too many flaws to be considered the most skilled by your criteria especially in terms of his defense. I think Fury and Lewis are both more skilled in terms of being well rounded while not having as many flaws but that's up to your perspective.

I think Wlad is a perfect example of a fighter who's deficiencies were made irrelevant because of how good he was at his style of fighting and imposing it on his opponent. I would say Bivol today is another fighter in a similar mold same with Frazier. Now could they have worked on their deficiencies and perhaps become more versatile boxers? Maybe but I think it would have lead to a cost of being worse at what they're best at leading to them being less effective fighters overall even if my your metric they would be more skilled.

Well your original point is that a fighter is more skilled if they're more well rounded even if someone else is much better at certain aspects hence why you said Vitali was more skilled then Wlad because Vitali is more well rounded while acknowledging that Wlad is much better at fighting at range. Now you seem to be pivoting and saying actually if depth is equal its about who has broader skills, so which is it? Sure ideally if all else is equal then the fighter that has more skills is better then the fighter that has less but that's a fantasy as illustrated by the actual example of fighters like Wlad compared to other SHWs.

 

Sure but you know what I meant though lol

 

Yeah except Byrd straight up couldn’t move around Wlad the way he did against Vitali. Wlad matched his footwork and picked him off at range.

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, even when they were coming up Wlad was always the prodigy kid, Vitali was the less skilled boxer that effectively used what he had.

 

He developed a little quicker than Lewis; he didn't start to unravel until after he won the title. Lewis finished much better.

 

Let me be clear, when I said more rounded, I was trying to describe your idea that having lots of different techniques makes a fighter more skilled. I understand you prefer to say having more skills simply means counting up the skills they have compared to someone else.

My point is this: Wladimir, even with fewer types of skills, was so incredibly good at his main strengths (his jab, right hand, clinching, and controlling the fight from far away) that his weaknesses didn't matter in most fights because he mastered his chosen style. This is where we see things differently, you think skill is about how many techniques a fighter has I think it's about how well and effectively they use the techniques they have, even if it's just a few key ones

This is exactly the heart of our disagreement and it's why I don't fully agree with your "if all else is equal" idea. In your example, the fighter who is excellent at infighting, mid-range, and long-range would certainly have more types of skills.

However, if the fighter who is 14lbs heavier and excellent only at infighting is so incredibly dominant and smart about forcing the fight to be an inside battle that they consistently beat the more versatile fighter (by never letting them use their other skills), then in a real fight, I would say the specialized infighter is showing a higher level of effective skill for winning. They are showing mastery that leads directly to victory.

So, my definition of skill is more about how effectively a fighter uses their strengths to win and control the fight, even if they only have a few super-strong skills. Your definition seems to be more about counting how many different techniques a fighter has mastered, regardless of how well those techniques help them win against different opponents in the real world. This is our main difference.

 

I've spoken to some sparring partners of Riddick Bowe.

King Ipitan who was one of Bowe's sparring partners who also sparred Lennox told me in regards to Bowe enjoying taking his punches in sparring, Bowe would boast to his sparring partners "Your shots can't hurt me, I can take them!". This was sadly what Muhammad Ali also did and a lot of boxers wanted to be like Ali, and this was the case with Riddick Bowe.

Whereas this wasn't the case with Lennox Lewis.

Bowe went into the first Golota fight with a concussion equilibrium infection.

 

You can say what you want about Riddick Bowe but the truth is that he was a special fighter.

 

Special Ed, maybe.

 

I mean your boy Lennox doesn't have a better win than Bowe's two wins against prime Holyfield.