Is Lennox Lewis the most skilled "giant" in boxing history?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ThatOne, Jul 13, 2025.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No, of course he doesn't.

    Shockingly, I didn't make that claim.
     
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  2. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Well, then I don't see the point of your example.
     
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  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It was YOUR example.
     
  4. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    The Rahman right hand was yours, intended to show that mine didn't work.
     
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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes.

    And I asked you if you thought that knowing those specific techniques might have helped Lewis in that specific situation. You answered that:

    "Lennox does not need to learn peekaboo to slip a right hand."

    Which is an absolutely ridiculous response. -

    You know full well i'm not saying Lennox Lewis needs to learn that technique to slip a right hand. Get out of here with that garbage.

    You know what i'm asking you if knowing a specific skill which calls for you to dip out of a charge - for example off the ropes - might have helped him in a situation where he charged off the ropes and got poleaxed by a right hand that he could have avoided using that specific technique.

    It's entirely obvious he could have benefited. Maybe not - but using that specific technique is obviously one that might work in that specific situation.

    You know all this, so answered a different question.

    At that point it's juts a waste of my time.
     
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I already answered this posts ago. The movement you described, whatever you want to call it, isn't limited to people who use peekaboo.

    My original statement was:

    Lennox Lewis wasn't as good at fighting out of the peekaboo guard as Mike Tyson. This fact was utterly irrelevant to Lennox's success.

    You don't need to know the peekaboo guard to slip a right hand in the way you describe. Just like you don't need to learn to fight out of the peekaboo guard in order to throw a jab, even though peekaboo fighters sometimes jab.

    If you've reached the point where you think you're wasting your time, then let's stop. Heaven knows I have enough real life work to do.
     
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  8. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why would giants like the Klitschkos adopt the peekaboo style when they can just fight like the giants they were?
     
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's true, but you said that Lennox Lewis learning the peekaboo style might have benefitted him in that specific situation. I say so, because it is a technique whereby the fighter takes himself off the centre line when moving forwards specifically to ditch straight punches from the opponent. Lewis was moving forwards in such a fashion and undertaking the moves taught in that technique might have helped him in that situation. You can say "no, I don't think there is any way that technique could have helped him in that situation" or you might prefer to say "having reflected upon it, dipping off the ropes in the peekaboo fashion and trying for the counter might have helped Lewis a lot in that moment." You don't have to reprint your "original statement." Just answer. If you think there is no way it would have helped him to know those moves, say so.

    :lol: Yes, I know that. You can slip it in one of a dozen ways. One of them is peekaboo. The one under discussion is peekaboo. This in no way precludes Lewis using any and all other techniques to avoid a right hand, BUT given the details of the technique it seems especially relevant in the circumstances.

    Allowing that Lennox Lewis does not have to learn this specific technique to drop a right hand :lol: Acknowledging that fact. It still seems relevant to ask. Do you think knowing and being familiar with those techniques having practiced them, for example, since he met Tyson and Cus years before he turned professional, he might have benefitted from knowing those techniques in that moment?

    And you can answer, if you want. Or, you can continue to pretend that i'm saying that it's the only possible way that Lewis could ditch a right hand and answer that made up question instead.

    Thank you. Thank you for that.

    Sadly for both of us, handling people who are being both obtuse and wrong is one of my hobbies.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You can learn a technique with "adopting" it. So for example, you might learn the Philly shell, but find that it doesn't merge with your maturing style particularly. Against an opponent that wants to jab for your chest and has been doing well with that move throughout the first two rounds, you might return to it for a spell in order to neutralise the opponent. It might work, it might not, but you have to know it to have the opportunity to deploy it.
     
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  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    I can hear Jim Watt rn. "10-8 to the Scotsman!"
     
  12. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I like the fact the mods on here engage.
     
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  13. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    But you can't compare them to lighter fighters in terms of skill only with fighters of their own size I would say. About Bowe, leaving out his inconsistency, I think he had too many flaws to be considered the most skilled by your criteria especially in terms of his defense. I think Fury and Lewis are both more skilled in terms of being well rounded while not having as many flaws but that's up to your perspective.

    I think Wlad is a perfect example of a fighter who's deficiencies were made irrelevant because of how good he was at his style of fighting and imposing it on his opponent. I would say Bivol today is another fighter in a similar mold same with Frazier. Now could they have worked on their deficiencies and perhaps become more versatile boxers? Maybe but I think it would have lead to a cost of being worse at what they're best at leading to them being less effective fighters overall even if my your metric they would be more skilled.

    Well your original point is that a fighter is more skilled if they're more well rounded even if someone else is much better at certain aspects hence why you said Vitali was more skilled then Wlad because Vitali is more well rounded while acknowledging that Wlad is much better at fighting at range. Now you seem to be pivoting and saying actually if depth is equal its about who has broader skills, so which is it? Sure ideally if all else is equal then the fighter that has more skills is better then the fighter that has less but that's a fantasy as illustrated by the actual example of fighters like Wlad compared to other SHWs.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The mods here are just posters.
     
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  15. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sure but you know what I meant though lol