Is Lennox Lewis's record & resume grossly, disgustingly, extremely suspect & overrated?

Babality · May 27, 2018

Pretty bad analysis. It consists of saying X guy beat Y guy better than Lewis. But Lewis beat them all during his era, that's the key.

Babality · May 27, 2018

Mynydd said: ↑

Spurious. You can do this with anyone's record I guess. Ali took two fights to knock out Frazier, who was knocked out twice by Foreman, who lost to Holyfield and Briggs, therefore Shannon Briggs > Ali.
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Foreman beat pretty much everybody better than Ali.

Big Ukrainian · May 27, 2018

C.J. said: ↑

Because he would have beaten Larry in a classic fight
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Lennox never beat anybody as skilled as Holmes. Mercer's jab gave Lewis a hell, and Holmes was taller, quicker, much, much smarter and 10-times more skilled than Mercer. Oh, and his jab was better than Ray's one. 42 y.o. Holmes easily outboxed prime unbeaten 30 y.o. Ray Mercer, while prime Lennox Lewis went life and death against 35 y.o. inactive and overweight version of Mercer, who hadn't won a fight in 30 month and whose last victory was a SD againt 20-10 Jesse Ferguson in rematch.

jmashyaka · May 27, 2018

Luis Fernando said: ↑

Let's evalute his best wins over the best opponents he's faced in his career:

1) Washed up Mike Tyson: Already demolished by Buster Douglas whilst he was still in his prime = better win against better version of Mike Tyson than the version Lennox Lewis beat. Otherwise, even a bum like Danny Williams managed to beat the washed up Mike Tyson that Lewis beat but did so quicker and in half the time.

2) Washed up Evander Holyfield: Chris Byrd beat the same version of Evander Holyfield far more convincingly and decisively than Lennox Lewis did. And also didn't require two attempts to get it done. And James Toney demolished that version of Holyfield via stoppage and dropped him multiple times. Something Lennox Lewis failed to do in 24 rounds against Holyfield, despite being a super heavyweight and despite being significantly larger in size than Toney or Byrd.

3) David Tua: Had already been defeated by Ike Ibeabuchi prior to fighting Lennox Lewis. Otherwise, Chris Byrd beat the same prime version of David Tua just as, or nearly as impressively / convincingly as Lewis did.

4) Ray Mercer: Arguably lost that fight or that fight was arguably a draw. Meanwhile, an ancient 40+ year old Larry Holmes that was way past his best by many years defeated the same prime version of Ray Mercer far more widely and it was an indisputable win, unlike Lewis's win over prime Ray Mercer a few years later which was questionable and in dispute. Furthermore, even a journeyman with double digit losses like Jessie Ferguson managed to beat Ray Mercer more convincingly and widely before Mercer fought Lewis.

5) Michael Grant: Never was that good to begin with anyway. Lost to Jameel Mccline right after his fight against Lennox Lewis. Lost to Dominic Guinn too, whilst still in his prime. And lost to a natural light heavyweight in Tomasz Adamek to top it off.

6) Hasim Rahman: The guy Lennox Lewis got brutally one punch KO'ed by and needed two fights and a rematch to win against. This is the same Rahman who was previously KO'ed by Oleg Maskaev who needed only one fight to get it done as well. But fought him again and beat him twice whilst Lewis only beat him once. Hasim Rahman was also stopped by Povetkin in just 2 rounds. And has many other losses to lesser opponents.

7) Tommy Morrison: A guy with a suspect chin. Lost all his fights via stoppage. And was stopped far more impressively and quickly by the other two guys who beat him previously before he fought Lennox Lewis. Which were Michael Bentt (who only needed 1 round to stop Morrison whilst Lewis needed 6) and by Ray Mercer. The same Ray Mercer who arguably beat Lennox Lewis in the first place.

8) Oliver McCall: A guy who dropped and stopped Lewis in humiliating fashion in just 2 rounds. Meanwhile, Lewis in the rematch failed to avenge his loss in equally impressive fashion because he failed to drop McCall after landing 6 rounds of kitchen sink, the same way McCall dropped Lewis in the second round in the first fight. And Lewis's stoppage victory was extremely controversial because McCall was mentally unstable for the fight and Lewis couldn't even drop him once and instead needed a weak standing stoppage. Furthermore, this is the same McCall who has lost 14 fights. Including to the likes of Orlin Norris and Mike Hunter among many other low level opponents. So hardly a special boxer anyway.

9) Frank Bruno: A decent win. But prime Mike Tyson had already demolished Frank Bruno far more easily, impressively and brutally than Lennox Lewis did. And Tyson did that before Lewis fought Bruno. Furthermore, a younger Bruno had also already lost by stoppage to two other opponents prior to facing Lewis anyway as well. Which makes Lewis's win over Bruno not that impressive anymore because it wasn't a special or an unprecedented victory.

10) Tony Tucker: A guy who was dropped like a yo-yo by a small, natural cruiser weight Herbie Hide and stopped in just 2 rounds by Hide. Whilst the much larger super heavyweight couldn't finish off or stop Tony Tucker in 12 rounds and needed a decision victory. Plus, Tucker had already lost to Mike Tyson before facing Lewis years ago. And he also lost to the likes of Orlin Norris and Bruce Seldon afterwards. Two guys who weren't great boxers by any stretch by modern standards.

11) Henry Akinwande: Won by a questionable disqualification. Considering Lewis used the exact same excessive clinching tactics against Mike Tyson and got away with it without getting disqualified himself. Whilst Akinwande wasn't allowed to use this tactics against Lewis. Thus, if Akinwande deserved to be disqualified against Lewis for excessive clinching, then Lewis's win over Mike Tyson shouldn't count as he also should've been disqualified. Otherwise, Akinwande was never that good to begin with, or beat any / many top level opponents. He feasted on bums / journeymen and got knocked out brutally by another journeyman in Oliver McCall who also stopped Lewis and beat Akinwande more convincingly than Lewis did.

12) Shannon Briggs: One of his best wins against an actual prime opponent. But before he was stopped in the 5th round by lennox Lewis, an undefeated Briggs had already been stopped by Daroll Wilson. A bum with 10 losses out of 27 bouts. Briggs then lost to multiple non-elite boxers such as to Jameel McCline and Sedreck Fields. Even in his prime. Along with the total one sided points defeat to Sultan Ibragimov and Vitali Klitschko. Thus, Lewis's win over Briggs doesn't remain great or special any longer.

13) Donovan Razor Ruddock: Probably Lewis's second best stoppage win of his career. But Ruddock has almost no wins over top 10 ranked heavyweights or highest level heavyweights. Thus, Ruddock was relatively unproven at the highest level and therefore, this win isn't that great or impressive for Lewis.

14) Andrew Golota: Probably Lewis's best stoppage win out of his career. However, Golota has 9 losses and never did anything great or beat anybody at the highest level, before or after losing to Lewis. Basically inferior to his countryman Mariusz Wach. And was also stopped by Tomasz Adamek, a guy who is a natural light heavyweight who isn't a heavyweight great. Was also stopped in just 1 round by Lamon Brewster, a contender level boxer. Thus, Lewis beating Golota isn't a very impressive win since Golota doesn't have a very impressive career with impressive wins himself.

15) Vitali Klitschko: Undoubtedly has the best heavyweight record compared to any other opponent of Lennox Lewis. However, most seem to think he was just a stiff, European robot that was never that good to begin with and fought in an insanely weak era. Not my words, but the words of many Lennox Lewis fans / fan boys / fanatics. And they could very well be right, because facts are, this is a guy who lost to a natural light heavyweight in Chris Byrd. So how good could he really have been, if that's the case and how much credit can we really give Lewis for beating Vitali with that being the case? And this is also a guy with multiple professions who was also a part time boxer who never prioritized boxing as much as his other professions. So much so, that boxing was one of the least significant activities in his life / career. Then what does that make Lennox Lewis, the fact that he went life and death against this stiff Euro robot who was practically a part time boxer that lost to a natural light heavyweight that competed in supposedly the weakest heavyweight era?

That, ladies and gentleman, is Lennox Lewis's supposed 'great' or 'all time great' heavyweight record / resume. Make of it whatever you may, but to me, it seems grossly and extremely suspect + overrated!
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The easiest way to counter this entire thread topic is to ask; who is it you wanted to see him fight that Lennox avoided?

The two top guys ducked him when he was tryna get their belts, that was Bowe and Tyson. He took out a legend in Holyfield, one of the guys who would go on to rule the division in Klitshcko.

jmashyaka · May 27, 2018

Babality said: ↑

Foreman beat pretty much everybody better than Ali.
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Foreman doesn’t have a Liston on his record. That is easily the best win on both their resumes.

jmashyaka · May 27, 2018

Glassbrain said: ↑

Name any fighter and I'll dissect it.
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Exactly you can nitpick everyone resume. This guy obviously didn’t watch the fights, there’s a reason Lewis is top 10 on nearly everyone’s people’s ATG HW list and top 5 for most hardcores.

jmashyaka · May 27, 2018

Zakman said: ↑

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been observing for years how wildly overrated Lewis is by some boxing fans - as many of the posts in this thread demonstrate. Lewis is the ONLY - the ONLY - top level HW ATG taken out in the early rounds not once, but TWICE, by B level mediocrities like McCall and Rahman.

When you add to this how he faced faded versions of the other two ATG level fighters of his era, Holyfield and Tyson, both of whom - Holyfield clearly so - should be rated higher on the ATG list, it's pretty clear that the rating some give him is grossly overinflated.
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Lol Lewis beat Holyfield convincingly twice, Tyson ducked Lewis. If someone said Holyfield has a better resume than Lewis I would disagree coz Evanders resume is a who’s who of the HW division, but you have to remember Lewis never got to fight Mike or Riddick close to their primes coz both ducked him.

On The Money · May 27, 2018

Big Ukrainian said: ↑

Lennox never beat anybody as skilled as Holmes. Mercer's jab gave Lewis a hell, and Holmes was taller, quicker, much, much smarter and 10-times more skilled than Mercer. Oh, and his jab was better than Ray's one. 42 y.o. Holmes easily outboxed prime unbeaten 30 y.o. Ray Mercer, while prime Lennox Lewis went life and death against 35 y.o. inactive and overweight version of Mercer, who hadn't won a fight in 30 month and whose last victory was a SD againt 20-10 Jesse Ferguson in rematch.
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there is also the Billups fight that went the distance. Sanders knocked the same guy out in one round a year later in 93. His phone never rang tho.

Zakman · May 27, 2018

jmashyaka said: ↑

Lol Lewis beat Holyfield convincingly twice, Tyson ducked Lewis. If someone said Holyfield has a better resume than Lewis I would disagree coz Evanders resume is a who’s who of the HW division, but you have to remember Lewis never got to fight Mike or Riddick close to their primes coz both ducked him.
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Lewis took step aside money to avoid facing Tyson and he went and got starched by McCall nixing a planned Bowe fight in early '95. Sorry, it was Lewis' fragile mandible that killed that fight!!

And, I wouldn't doubt that after McCall exposed Lewis' shaky whiskers, that this factored into his management's decision to take a step-aside against Tyson to wait until he got old!!!

Rumsfeld · May 27, 2018

Big Ukrainian said: ↑

Lennox never beat anybody as skilled as Holmes. Mercer's jab gave Lewis a hell, and Holmes was taller, quicker, much, much smarter and 10-times more skilled than Mercer. Oh, and his jab was better than Ray's one. 42 y.o. Holmes easily outboxed prime unbeaten 30 y.o. Ray Mercer, while prime Lennox Lewis went life and death against 35 y.o. inactive and overweight version of Mercer, who hadn't won a fight in 30 month and whose last victory was a SD againt 20-10 Jesse Ferguson in rematch.
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I agree with the spirit of everything you're saying here. But in fairness, Mercer was inconsistent and ran very hot and cold. He was up for the bouts with Lewis and Holyfield. He was obviously not up for the first bout with Ferguson.

But, all of that said, watching Holmes dissect Mercer was brilliant. Still a favorite fight of mine, as I tend to enjoy watching old vets outclass younger up-and-comers.

greenhornet · May 27, 2018

Big Ukrainian said: ↑

Lennox never beat anybody as skilled as Holmes. Mercer's jab gave Lewis a hell, and Holmes was taller, quicker, much, much smarter and 10-times more skilled than Mercer. Oh, and his jab was better than Ray's one. 42 y.o. Holmes easily outboxed prime unbeaten 30 y.o. Ray Mercer, while prime Lennox Lewis went life and death against 35 y.o. inactive and overweight version of Mercer, who hadn't won a fight in 30 month and whose last victory was a SD againt 20-10 Jesse Ferguson in rematch.
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holmes had little power though, while mercer had great power.

greenhornet · May 27, 2018

C.J. said: ↑

C;mon Susie ROFLMAO Headbutts ???? Not even Vitali's team claimed that BS
Lennox Lewis TKO 6 Vitali Klitschko Live with it
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lewis opened the cut with a blatant thumb.

Rumsfeld · May 27, 2018

Zakman said: ↑

Lewis took step aside money to avoid facing Tyson and he went and got starched by McCall nixing a planned Bowe fight in early '95. Sorry, it was Lewis' fragile mandible that killed that fight!!

And, I wouldn't doubt that after McCall exposed Lewis' shaky whiskers, that this factored into his management's decision to take a step-aside against Tyson to wait until he got old!!!
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Actually, there were 3 instances when a Lewis vs Bowe fight was in talks. The first time was after Bowe beat Holyfield and Lewis beat Ruddock. Ultimately, Lewis' camp initially declined an offer from Bowe's camp that they then accepted, but by then Bowe's camp had moved on, and he pulled the PR stunt dumping the belt.

The next time they reached an agreement was when McCall stopped Lewis derailing the fight. But the 3rd time the fight fell apart was when Lewis took step-aside money from Tyson.

As part of the agreement where Lewis received step-aside money from Tyson, Lewis was slated to face Bowe. That was part of the step-aside deal. All that stood in the way was Mercer for Lewis and Golota for Bowe. Lewis narrowly edged out Mercer, but with the controversy surrounding the circumstances of Bowe-Golota I, a rematch was naturally in demand, and by then, the Bowe-Lewis ship had sailed.

But.... you're combining/confusing 2 of the 3 instances where would-be fights between Bowe and Lewis were in talks.

Rumsfeld · May 27, 2018

greenhornet said: ↑

holmes had little power though, while mercer had great power.
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I tend to think their power was in the same ballpark. Neither was known for tremendous power, but both had good pop.

greenhornet · May 27, 2018

Rumsfeld said: ↑

I tend to think their power was in the same ballpark. Neither was known for tremendous power, but both had good pop.
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not even close to the same power.

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Is Lennox Lewis's record & resume grossly, disgustingly, extremely suspect & overrated?

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