Is Lomachenko an all-time great ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by ENI_3300, Jun 4, 2021.

Lomachenko an ATG ?

This poll will close on May 4, 2022 at 11:48 AM.
  1. No

    56.5%
  2. Yes

    43.5%
  1. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Cruiserweight was arguably the best it ever was in terms of competition when Usyk was competing in it.
     
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  2. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    Sure, but that is not how you are "supposed" to define ATGs.
    Briedis, Gassiev, Hunter aren't "names" like Barrera or Marquez.
     
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  3. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah he is but i wouldn't call him an ATG heavyweight because Ruiz already got to Joshua and Ruiz rightly wasn't seen as an ATG heavyweight. But yes he is an ATG in general and H2H gives any heavyweight in history a bit of issue i think
     
  4. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I said ATG cruiserweight, he's arguably the best cruiserweight of all time. And since he moved up and became unified against Joshua he's a pfp ATG
     
  5. StussyBrownnn

    StussyBrownnn Member Full Member

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    i agree haha not at HW yet.
     
  6. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    By vintage standards CW is HW.
     
  7. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    George Foreman, Joe Bugner, Buster Mathis and Ron Lyle are not cruiserweights by any definition. You could say the 70s is basically a mix between cruiserweights and heavyweights.

    But technically speaking, if cruiserweights now are heavyweights then, Ali must be the goat cruiser for beating and schooling a monstrously huge powerful cruiserweight in Sonny Liston, clearing the 60s and one of the great heavyweights for beating a prime undefeated Foreman and Ron Lyle while well past his prime
     
  8. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    Cruisers like Gassiev are actually quite big.
    Foreman straddles the region between the two divisions.
    Liston was monstrously huge punching for his time. Nothing to suggest his power would be extraordinary today.

    Yes, you can call Ali the greatest CW if you want.
     
  9. Deew

    Deew Active Member Full Member

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    He's not an ATG

    hasn't done enough

    Shame really, along with all the crying after Lopez loss he fell in my eyes
     
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  10. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    Is Andre Ward an ATG?
     
  11. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah and Okolie, thing is Foreman is bigger
    Foreman was a heavyweight. He was already cutting down as a heavyweight when he weighed in at 215-220 in his career. He was a natural 230-235 and would have to kill himself to practically make the cruiserweight limit. He would be a smallish heavyweight in todays era but a heavyweight nonetheless.
    He would obviously have monstrous power and strength compared to anybody in the cruiserweight division today just like he did against his fellow "cruiserweights" during his heavyweight era
     
  12. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member Full Member

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    I have seen this statement several times so a reliable source would be welcome.
    He was "big" by 60s standards, modern cruisers are just as large. Some of them like Gassiev are better off weighing 230 lbs.
     
  13. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Foreman mentioned it in his autobiography, he got drained.
    And whos to say any top cruisers now bar Gassiev hit as hard or harder than Liston ? Liston easily overpowered and destroyed his "cruiser" challengers. Liston would be a huge cruiser. Not a tall one but a bulky one. He is incredibly stocky compared to any cruiser 6'1 cruiser i know, especially his legs.

    Beterbiev ain the tallest but he's huge for a LHW because of his bulk, you get the point ?
     
  14. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan Active Member Full Member

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    Yeah, but not every ATG is Pacman and fights in divisions where multi division champions are common. CW and HW are generally so much better than the other division they don't get chances to compete with multi division champs. The ones who do are usually comparatively weak, and are preyed on for this fact by ATGs in lower divisions.
     
  15. Grinder

    Grinder Dude, don't call me Dude Full Member

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    It is abundantly clear that Loma has been ducked by several belt holders at 135, in addition to the litany of other boxers who ducked him. He beat Salido on the scales, and in their fight, but boxing politics protected him and demographically polarised opinions like to bring this fight up, because of the fundamental truths told by Loma's skills. That is, Loma is far more skilful than most of his peers, including the heroes of those who despise him.

    Loma has not ducked anyone, and tried to make fights without success. Getting Teo into the ring was extremely difficult, so much so that he fought him with an injured shoulder in case Teo pulled out.

    The way Loma has dominated good opposition who are significantly larger than him is unmatched. His inability to get fights is not his problem, it is the problem of the duckers, which gives further credence to his position as an ATG.