is Lomachenko overrated fighter?

Utter bollocks, he got the American treatment over his entire career.

Care to explain what did he exactly do in the pro ranks to skip ahead of hard working contenders and earn
- the Salido world title fight with just ONE PRO FIGHT?
- the T-Rex fight RIGHT after he got schooled by Salidaddio?
- a shot at undisputed Haney after looking crap vs. Jemaine?

He didn't do sht. All these world title fights were bought by his American promoter via money, had he been Estonian or Venezuelan without strong backing, not only he would've never got the free world title handouts - ever - he would've also got the T-Rex loss and probably the Jamaine one too, and that's a 15-5 record. Now tell me how you get big fights with a 15-5 record and no Arum stuffing organization and opposition pockets - you don't.

 

P4p is just that. Never seen someone docked places or moved up in a p4p list because of long or short reach. This seems a new invention to make Loma's struggles at LW seem better. Which is a perfect example of how overrated he is.

 

Not saying Loma is not overrated. Saying that's why p4p lists are trash. When they list size bullies who just purely beat on smaller men in their first weight class, like Spence you know it's trash.

 

So now you're back on weight? You're a bit overall the place, the common factor seems just to be to make excuses for Loma.

But to put things in perspective, Inoue gave away size in every way you care to measure to Fulton, but still dominated him. That's the mark of a generational p4p fighter. Or Crawford dominating said Spence despite starting out at 135 lbs, not to speak of the size Usyk gave up to AJ.

So Loma, who was supposed to be TBE, couldn't even keep up with the best of his own generation. He's at best a top 5 p4p of this generation, which is quite a fall for a supposed TBE.

 

Weight is just one factor of size. Skeletal structure is part of size, and a short plump man is gonna look tiny next to someone slightly lighter, lean and muscular with a larger frame.

So the use of pure weight to measure "p4p" is flawed in the first place.

Like you said, inoue beating a champ while giving away every facet of size (weight, height, reach) is the mark of p4p.

Crawford beating Spence is not as impressive comparatively. Crawford was a size bully coming up from 135, and now fighting at his true weight class of 147 while having freakish reach.

So yes, Loma factoring in his lack of reach, still impressive what he's done, but there other people like Pacquiao and Duran who were able to pull it off with even bigger size disadvantages, so he's not as good as them p4p.

 

For sure not. Not even Inoue or Usyk.

Or Crawford for that matter.

And if you want to do your reach thing he is quite some way behind Canelo, who has given up reach to most of the guys he faced, for sure.

So however we twist and turn this, we're looking at top5 p4p guy of a generation that many feel is quite average. Nowhere remotely close to GOAT or TBE etc in other words.

 

I know people will say i am crazy but here is my take:
Loma is physically not very gifted, he is rather small in frame, has short arms, not a extremely good chin and a lot of natural speed and power. All his assets are rather learned skills then natural ability's, he is kind of the opposite of froch.
I think that always gave him a level cap of what he could reach

 

Lomachenko is overrated for two reasons.

1. His fight IQ. In terms of physical talent, technical ability, skills, whatever you want to call them he's incredible, but his fighting IQ is not close to GOAT level. Put Floyd's brain in his body and he's undefeated.

2. His and his fans excuses. Win lose or draw, nobody cares about the times where GGG, Duran, Pacquiao, Ezzard, or Floyd, SRR, Patterson etc were outweighed / naturally light for their weight class, or the times they were older than their opponent. Never heard anyone say that No Mas basically doesn't count because Duran moved up from lightweight, or GGG losing his 2nd fight against Canelo basically doesn't count because he's old. Their disadvantages are pieces of context sure but never a crutch.

Lomachenko is the only person that gets moral victories for moving up in weight or being old, as if he's the first fighter to endure these circumstances lol. Usyk
demolished a younger, much heavier AJ twice, but Loma can't beat Lopez or Haney and all you hear about is how he's a lion who's daring to fight above his natural weight class and how his opponents would never survive if the tables were turned. I think someone in this thread said "Loma would beat Haney if Haney was 35 and Loma was 25" wtf lol. Again, never heard anyone say 'Mike Tyson's victory over Larry Holmes doesn't count because if Mike Tyson was 38 and Larry Holmes was 21 then he would have won". Loma gets some utter nonsense to justify his short comings.

 

I think most more or less will agree with this. In terms of pure technical skill and boxing iq Loma ranks substantially higher than he does as a full package (wherein power, speed etc are important parts), but much harder to say how high. What would he have accomplished with Inoue's power and explosiveness for example?

I don't think he fought very smart against Lopez, though. Basically doing nothing for the first 6 and then whining about not getting the decision. Lost a lot of respect for him there.

 

Loma has very, very fast hands though. But yes I agree with the rest of your post. His hands do seem to be an outlier.

 

It's like Lomachenko gets rated on a double pound for pound scale. He doesn't get rated on his ability, he gets rated on his ability, relative to his own ability. He's not hard hitting or strong enough to effortlessly move up in weight like other fighters and yet this gets downplayed as if athletic ability isn't an important part of judging boxing ability, and that he should get more credit for his "pure skill" over more athletic fighters.

Have to ignore consistently used criteria and definitions and redefine terms for Loma so he can be mentioned in conversations he's undeserving of.

 

He should of stayed at 126 and /or 130.
No one would of turned him over imo.
Went for the £ at 135 and paid the price.
Has the skills but not the size for the A tier fighters at that weight.

 

It's a bit comical how the narrative have shifted. Before the losses to Lopez and Haney it was "Loma is TBE, period". Now it is "no, we didn't overrate him because if he was as fast as RJJ and hit as hard as Julian Jackson and had the reach of Hearns, he would be TBE. And also weight bullies".

But the thing is that most would do quite darn well with the speed of Jones and power of Jackson (Hearns's freakish dimensions weren't only a blessing, though, since they left him exposed against those good or strong enough to be able to trade with him) and facing bigger guys is a fact of life for those that are moving up the divisions in the day before weigh-in era. So booo the **** hooo.

Loma can be fantastic to watch, but he will never be among the top p4p fighters of all time, so if you made that prediction just own up to being wrong instead of hating on Lopez and Haney and crying about how unfair life is.

 

Here is what AI analysis is saying about Loma´s fights against Lopez, Haney and Linares

Loma - Lopez:
Punches 184 - 106
Power punches 60 - 14

Loma - Haney:
Punches 161 - 113
Power punches 45 - 21

Loma - Linares:
Punches 213 - 67
Power punches 65 - 7

Can we see a pattern here? When there is objective slow motion machine analysis Loma is doing better than we can see. I believe this is based on the fact that Loma is so elusive and almost telepathic blocker that we think that his opponent is connecting more often than what happens in reality.

Here are links to sources:

Haney fight

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Lopez fight

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Linares fight

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The fights are scored on RBR basis. You can outland your opponent by 100 punches overall but if you were outlanded in 7 of them, then you deserve to lose. I think Lopez won quite clearly.