Is Manny Pacquiao a top 12 all time great

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Charley Burley is arguably the most talented fighter to ever pick up a pair of gloves. He was also one of most avoided. He never got an opportunity to fight for a title like most of the Black Murderers Row a that time. No, Archie Moore is not the only ATG he has beaten, he beat Fritzie Zivic and Holman Williams and many of the other cast of the Murderers Row. He routinely fought great competition and had to fight out of his "comfort zone" (which seems to be part of your criteria) because he had no choice. Look at his fight against Oakland Billy Smith for confirmation on how he handled men much bigger than himself.

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As I stated his weight jumping is quite overrated. He was a young guy trying to grow into his body. He collected many paper titles but in most of those divisions never fought the top guy or the 2nd best guy. Hatton is not a great fighter (also got destroyed by Floyd, do we overrate Floyd now?), Cotto is not a great fighter and was done at the elite level BEFORE he got in the ring with Pac. Clottey is absolutely horrible only in this era can a guy like him be considered a top 5 welter. I don't even know why you even brought up the Hoya victory, won't waste time there. He never convincely beat Marquez in even one of those bouts, he deserved to lose the 1st. He also lost to Morales and beat him after he was clearly finished. He gets credit for the 1st Barrera win, but the rematches were useless.

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I'm 21 yrs old, so please with the nostalgia crap. Through some time of research and learning about the sport I've come to the conclusion that past eras were quite simply stronger and fighters were much superior, not a knock on the current era that's just the way it is when looking at it from a unbiased view. Give it some time and you'll feel the same way.

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No, Pac doesn't "trump" Whitaker in any sense of the imagination. He beat solid opponents at every weight division he's fought, unlike Pac, and he also dominated a division something Pac NEVER did. There's no one on Pac's resume that's head and shoulders above Whitaker's opponents and thats counting Barrera and Morales. If you think Whitaker lost to Chavez you are truly hopeless, history remembers Whitaker for dominating Chavez and he should be rewarded for it in the history books. Whitaker held his own and arguably beat (he did by 1 pt in my opinion) a prime Hoya when past his prime, lets try and sit back and wait and see if Pac can accomplish such a feat. How did Whitaker not fight past his "comfort zone" when being only 5'5 and a natural lightweight moving up 4 divisions???

The current era is one of the weakest in memory and also a reason why Pac cannot quite be rated at the level of some past fighters, but i'm not saying he can't get there...he can.

 

your avatar can unify a lot of divisions!!:happy

Pac probably needs to fight 10 fights against world champions around WW and JWW to be ATG 10.(unfortunately, he'll retire soon) Let's give him top 25-30 for now.

 

Manny Steward, a former Pac discreditor, said after the Cotto fight: I will have to consider him an ATG in the class of Ali and Robinson.

Don't like it? Go write to Steward. Not my words.

 

top 12 is a big call.....what hes done is amazing. but if you give him top 12- then what do you give floyd? what do you give floyd if floyd beats pac?

i like both guys- and think pac deserves to right now be in the top 30- conservatively- but also that floyd belongs in the same league. people are saying pac is top 10 and that floyd is top 50 only. that to me reeks of bias. of the past 4 guys pac has beaten- floyd beat 2 of them first. and should he beat shane- he beats someone who is top 75 himself.

just saying- when ranking these guys- to have a bit of fairness with pacs contemporaries also. they both scaled 6+ divisions- have fought amazing fights. i think that their destinies are yet to be written- and will eventually be linked- and dependant on each other.

 

Imagine if Hearns and Leonard had never fought one another what that would have done to their legacies:think They probably end up in the same exact tier of greatness.

 

atsch


:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

Void fans hate Pac because Pac exposed Void and a coward and liar.

 

Ignorance of other fighters is probably why more people have answered yes than no. Pac's great, no question. But you probably ask most of the people who voted yes some questions about older fighters like Willie Pep and Bob Fitzsimmons and they'll get a stupid look on their face.

 

Not yet.
Beat Mayweather/Mosley, get that 8th title and clean out 140. Then he'll have a chance.

 

This overrating of fighters is ridiculous. top 12? His last 4 fights were good, but not great enough to do all this. I like Manny but then after he fights then people start saying he is the best ever. A few months go by and people start being more logical with his ranking, and then he fights and beats an average fighter and people say again he is the best ever. I think his wins are good, but in all honesty Cotto and Clottey and Hatton all lost fights in recent times and in similar fashion. We knew Oscar was washed up.. Why this overrating?

 

No. Not yet.

 

Hes clearly higher than Mayweather and Chavez thats all everyone needs to know.

 

Nope. Top 30 at a push

 

Nope, he'll have to do more but definitly within reach.

 

No. Top 35 definitely, top 25 maybe. Not top 12 though, not even close.