Is Manny Pacquiao a top 50 All-Time Great

I am PACFAN, but I must honestly say NO he is not a top 50 all-time great. He would definitely be in the top 100, but I can't be any more accurate than that as I have never written a top 100. The way I have worked out that he cannot be in my top 50 is that I wrote a top 25 fighters of the last 25 years list (available on this very forum!) and had Pac around 12th. I then wrote a top 25 of the previous 25 years (1958-83), and then after that compiled them into a top 25 fighters of the past 50 years (1958-2008). Pac did not make it into the 25. I think only 7 or so did from the top 25 of 1983-2008 (Whitaker, Jones Jr, Chavez, Holyfield, Lewis, Mayweather, Hopkins, and maybe Tyson), so there were still more guys ahead of Pac that didn't get in from that list, more who would be in ahead of him from the 1958-1983 list, and that isn't even counting any fighters from the 19th century up until 1958, and obviously there would be at least 20-30, possibly more, of them.

When you add that all up, there would definitely be more than 50 ahead of Pac in my list.

But there's still time for him yet...

 

That fact that you only have 7 from the last 25 years make the top 50 as oppose to the 18 from the previous last 25 years shows more bias towards older generation fighters than anything really.

Give me your top 50 please, im curious as to who you put above who.

Not saying that its wrong, this is all a matter of opinion afterall and very subjective, I do find however alot of underrating of newer fighters. In 10 years time im sure FMJ for example would rate alot higher.

 

No it doesn't. It just means there was a lot more quality in those days. You've explained that you conduct your ATG rankings in a very different(but very flawed by my estimation) way than most, so you're obviously going to have differing views.

 

Quality is subjective and very highly depends on how you look at it. He may indeed (without knowing it) be bias towards older fighters than the newer generation ones. I believe that the way I do it is the fairest way to go abouts it without injecting too much bias in favour of certain era.

To put it into example, though Usain Bolt has broken Michael Johnson's records, I just cant accept that he is better than him. Had there been no records, I really never will. Each era produces great fighters.

 

That fact that you only have 7 from the last 25 years make the top 50 as oppose to the 18 from the previous last 25 years shows more bias towards older generation fighters than anything really.

That's a pretty stupid statement to be honest mate. If you take two groups of fighters from 2 different time periods, then select a top group from those 2 groups, must you have an exact same number from each or you are guilty of bias? Then probably everyone in history who has ever compiled such a list is biased then, as if you are taking each case on its individual merits like I was, it is very very unlikely you will have an even split (impossible in my case as there was 25 in my list).

I have written extensively on the Classic forum AGAINST old fighter bias, as it is something which irritates me, but it is only when it is taken to extremes does it bother me (guys with Robinson plus 9 guys there is very little footage of as their top 10 p4p, that sort of stuff), as the fact is there was more quality earlier on in the 20th century.

I have to log off now so I can't post the link to my lists just now, I'll do so tomorrow for you if you're still interested then, but I will quickly write a top 5 for each period that I believe should demonstrate the gulf in class between the periods 1958-1983 and 1983-2008:

My Top 5 1983-2008:
1.Pernell Whitaker
2.Roy Jones Jr
3.Julio Cesar Chavez
4.Evander Holyfield
5.Floyd Mayweather Jr

My Top 5 1958-1983:
1.Roberto Duran
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Sugar Ray Leonard
4.Carlos Monzon
5.Alexis Arguello

These are just my personal choices, but if you choose 5 from those 10 to make a top 5 1958-2008, how many of the 1983-2008 batch would make it in? I say only Whitaker in place of Arguello, so it's a 4-1 to the 1958-1983 group.

Bias? I think not.

 

Bad example, I would definitely put Chavez over Monzon...heck even RJJ has a case. That would make it 3-2..which is about as far as you can go out of 5.

This is one clear example of why I think modern fighters are underrated. Size by side, Monzon really isnt any greater than Chavez or RJJ.

And to answer your question, no you dont have to have an exact equal number. 18-7 is overkill though.

 

Yes, he is a great fighter who fought the best in his division. We should give him credit for his will and tenacity to win despite all odds starting from 105 to 147. He is the only boxer so far who has achieved this feat.

 

Top 900, no doubt in my mind.

 

of course..

 

Seriously though yeah, no doubt.

 

He stepped up to 135 and whipped Diaz decisively. Not only held off the encroachment that's common from Diaz, but stopped 'em in the 9th. with a textbook left hook. That was quite the introduction to lightweight, I thought.

 

is pacquiao in the top 3 or 2 asian fighters of all time in your opinion? he's certainly had a better career than galaxy, watanabe, villa....... Only harada and perhaps elorde have greater claim.

 

He is definitely better than all of them, resume-wise and achievement-wise. He is a 4 or 5 division champ which no Asian has ever achieved.