Is Marciano...

Straws .Clutching!

 

OUCH! ,, he should throw in the towel,,,

 

Point out uncomfortable facts about Marciano and you will attract the Rockista's as surely as dog **** attracts flies! Just as certain is they will call you a hater.
Later they will go on to say,if Rocky was around today he would be 220lbs. LUDICROUS!

 

Oh great forum elder please. If you have two fighters with 3 bouts as a pro they can be at different places… one may have started at 13 and been training for a decade, the other may have 2 years of boxing experience sir that’s a huge advantage! come on Mac some guys win the title in there 8th fight others in there 40th but you should look at the total time they’ve boxed not just the fight count mister Statman.

 

You want some of this Rein? I’ll bash a Marciano > Norton thread upside your head good sir.

 

Listen Newbie.
Marciano was the first white heavyweight champion for19 years!

You don't think that had any bearing on his standing among white fans? Marciano is the last white American heavyweight champion.
That was 70 years ago,you don't think that has any impact on how he is perceived today? GROW UP!
BTW I'm white so your," playing the race card "ploy doesn't work,it's just another example of someone adding 2+2 together and making it 5!

 

I boxed ,I know how it works Rockista!

 

So you agree

 

“GROW UP” - the guy who calls people “Rockista” if they like or defend Marciano? What does that even mean? Is it a pun I’m not getting Mac? Lol,

 

Per Wikipedia:

- Frazier won the Golden Gloves in 1962. I assume he'd been boxing before that point, since people don't just walk in off the street and win those, but that's the earliest boxing entry we have. He got the title in 1970. (Technically, didn't beat the former Man until 1971, but we'll date it from Ellis.) At least 8 years.

Marciano won the armed forces championship in 1946. Presumably, he had also boxed before this. Won the title in 1952. At least 6 years. Met Louis in 1951, 5(?) years in.

Dempsey was beating up hobos during a somewhat hazy period of time, at least as Wikipedia has it, so I don't know how long before 1919 he was involved in boxing.

Gus Tomato acquired full custody of Tyson when Tyson was 16, but (per Bleacher Report), Tyson had won the Junior Olympic Championship in 1981, and had presumably boxed before that. He became undisputed -- again, aside from Spinks, to try to be consistent -- by beating Tucker in 87. 6 years.

Floyd took up boxing at 14. Gus Tomato got him, too, and he was champ at 21. 7 years.


So it depends on the fighter. The boxing prodigies who were intensively boxing in D'Amato's cult compound managed to get the title and enter their primes around the same time Marciano did. (Although I think Patterson improved after he got the title.) Frazier took longer, and his experience is probably more normal. Dempsey I don't know. Everybody develops at different rates.

But the issue is whether Marciano was a finished fighter at the time he fought Louis, a year before winning the title, or whether he improved. That's not a question you can answer just with stats. That question can better be answered by film, by Marciano's trainers/coaches, and by guys who fought Marciano before and after his Louis fight (which is basically LaStarza). Did LaStarza say whether he'd improved or not? Did his trainers comment? What does the film say? Those are the more relevant questions.

 

No I don't you found yourself on the losing end of an argument about different fighters respective amateur experience,and fastened onto Tyson like a limpet because you had no answer to my alternatives.
Liston
Berbick
Holmes
Wardley
Itauma
Norton
Which I found with just a cursory look on Box Rec,[there are plenty more.]

 

I gave other examples ,nowhere did I mention Frazier or Ellis .
No the question isn't whether Marciano was a finished fighter when he fought Louis I never stated,or implied that.
You are constructing and rebutting straw man arguments,I never made. My only argument was to take issue with the oft repeated excuse that Marciano was cossetted by fighting sausages early in his career because of his lack of amateur experience.

When I named several others with comparable amateur experience who were fighting good opposition way before Rocky was , Journeyman had no credible answer to my examples.
I am an admirer of your posts,unfortunately,on this occasion we find ourselves at opposite ends of the playing field.

 

Never said you did. I listed the guys I did, including Frazier, because they were aggressive fighters often spoken of in the same broad category as Rocky.

Much appreciated, and yeah, it's not a big deal to be on opposite ends of a question. It's a boxing discussion, not politics or religion.

The way I read your discussion with @Journeyman92, the disagreement started when you said on Page 1 that ancient Louis couldn't miss Marciano with a jab. Journeyman replied that Marciano was only 4 years in to his career. You replied to that on page 2, saying that Marciano had 37 fights under his belt when he faced Louis. And it went on from there.

So the question, as I saw it, was whether Marciano's defense against Louis can be excused by his inexperience. That's what my post was addressed to.

 

You started the name calling,I merely responded ,and I'm happy to continue adapting to whichever MO you choose.

 

McVey is saying Marciano fought 26 men under 190lbs, which means he's saying the remaining c.20 opponents were over 190lbs.

He is saying that of the 26 opponents that were under 190lbs, 17 were under 185lbs and 5 under were under 175lbs.