Is Marvis Frazier underrated?

I think most people would say no.

But, if Joe had been stopped by Holmes and Tyson, I doubt he'd be the same guy who beat Ali, himself.

That said, Marvis could outpoint tall boxers. Mitch Green was a dominant New York Golden Gloves champ (when that meant something) and Tony Tubbs could outpoint just about anyone over three rounds, and Marvis outboxed both of them.

Joe Frazier will always be considered much better than Marvis because Joe beat Ali and Joe was a champ.

I just don't think there was that much difference between Joe and Marvis, Yank Durham just did a great job guiding Joe's career ... and Joe did a pretty poor job guiding his son's.

 

I was a boxing geek as a teen. I followed amateur boxing pretty closely in the late 70s and guys like Marvis Frazier, Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Jimmy Clark, etc. There used to be a lot of it on television. Tubbs and Frazier fought a couple times, and they were broadcast on national television because Tubbs fought for Muhammad Ali's boxing club (which was run by Harold Fields - who embezzled all the money from Wells Fargo Bank) and Marvis was a Frazier. So there was always a Ali-Frazier storyline around those matches, and Tubbs was the boxer and Marvis the puncher.

Tubbs' first amateur fight was actually against Greg Page. In fact, they fought a handul of times as amateurs, and Page won most (I believe). Which isn't brought up much when people talk about their pro fight for the WBA belt. (They'd fought each other quite a lot before that.)

I'll always remember watching one amateur tournament on TV and Archie Moore's son fought in it .. and he looked EXACTLY like Archie. And then the bell rang and Moore's son was awful and got beat pretty bad. (I never saw him again.)

This is a good site to look up amateur boxing results from back then. http://amateur-boxing.strefa.pl./

Sometimes it's easier to just pick a year and click on all the tournaments to see who is fighting because the boxers' names aren't always spelled accurately so they don't come up in random name searches.

 

As much as I admired Joe Frazier he did a crap job of guiding Marvis' career. After beating a past prime Joe Bugner,Frazier Jr. was thrown in with Larry Holmes when he should have been matched up against a few contenders to see how he'd do before going for the title against a man who was already known as an all time great heavyweight. A few years go by and we see him being chucked in with the hungry lion that was Mike Tyson.

Yes I do agree that Marvis should have boxed at Cruiserweight.

 

Marvis may have beaten Tubbs and Witherspoon as amateurs but can anyone seriously imagine that he'd have done the same had he fought them as professionals ? Different game as Tyson-Tillman proved.

 

There's no reason to believe he'd lose ... considering he won when he fought them before.

Everybody always brings up Tyson and Tillman as some pat answer ... like Tyson-Tillman is the standard.

Like, if you win in the amateurs, in the pros you're certainly going to lose. (Just look at Tyson-Tillman). But most people didn't think Tillman beat Tyson in the amateurs, either.

Think if all the guys Lomachenko beat in the amateurs turned pro, he'd lose to all of them now? Marvis wasn't some coke head. He didn't suck as a pro. He wasn't spiraling out of control. He just lost to the TOP TWO HEAVYWEIGHTS OF THE 80s. And only them.

Marvis fought for more than 10 years ... amateur and pro, and the only TWO people he didn't score a win over out of all the guys he fought (in the paid and unpaid ranks) were Larry Holmes (when Holmes was the reigning champ) and Mike Tyson (the year Tyson won the WBC title).

I'm sure Marvis would've done just fine against guys like Tubbs and Spoon as pros, just like he did MORE THAN fine against them as amateurs.

He just picked the wrong guy to run his career ... his dad.

 

When you have been watching their amateur fights, who at that time impressed you the most?

I have recently watched a tape of 15 y.o. Michael Dokes and he looked really impressive for his age, he boxed like an experienced pro. Shame he wasn't dedicated enough when he bacame older.

 

Marvis Frazier was a helluva amateur fighter.

 

Yes , i lived in Philly in my younger days and can agree with alot of what you say.
Also yes Page edged Tubbs in the amateurs mostly. They and their familys knew one another so well. Tubbs of course took the title when they met in the pro's.
I went to Fraziers gym , Joe used to literally sleep on the top floor room.The place wasnt as smart as you would expect.
Marvis was a nice young man and yes he became a preacher.

 

Yes , his Dad never stoped thinking he was a fighter and tried to live it all again through his son.

 

Ah..Jimmy Clark from Coatesville Pa. My hometown. He had some talent. Word on the street was he was offered Frazier but turned it down because he didn't think it was enough $. I can`t confirm that for sure but he may have beaten Marvis as a pro.

 

Not at all

I don't buy Double Chin's spin.

He was overrated when he fought

blown out in one by Tyson (less than one minute) and Holmes

And he was the more experienced of the two when he fought Tyson.

Effectively stopped in the second round by James Tillis but referee Joey Curtis saved him with a bs standing 8 count as Tillis rained in unanswered punches

His punch resistance was low

Basically he was a very cheap imitation of his Dad. Bert Cooper was probably a better imitation of Joe Frazier.

 

The only two guys Marvis Frazier didn't beat in his amateur and pro careers combined were Hall of Famers Mike Tyson and Larry Holmes.

Just those two guys.

Who did Cooper lose to again? Weren't there like 25 guys?

Don't insult Joe Frazier like that. Marvis was far superior to Bert Cooper for God's sake.

What the hell is wrong with everyone tonight?

You've got one guy saying Anthony Joshua is better than Ali and someone else trying to compare Bert Cooper ... who lost to everyone ... with Joe Frazier (who only lost to two Hall of Famers in his career ... like his son did).

 

He really should've fought comeback Foreman. It would've been good marketing and he'd have had a chance to win if he made it out of the first two rounds.

 

I'm fairness Joe Frazier DID train Bert Cooper and I think what saad meant is that there were some similarities in both style and toughness.. Cooper battled through some pretty harsh beatings to either grab a win or lose galantly and in truth did resemble Frazier somewhat stylistically.. but I agree with you that in no way shape or form was smokin' Bert anywhere near as good as Smokin' Joe and I don't think saad believed he was either.