Is Mayweather underrated ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by OP_TheJawBreaker, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    I don't know of any Hatton performances at 140 where he looked bad due to weight draining. As for Corrales, that is common weight gain for a lot of fighters and he could have intentionally gained more to get an edge.

    What happened in the fight had little to do with weight. Corrales never gassed. He got tattooed.
     
  2. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Why are you 100% onboard with what he said?

    Floyd retired to minimise the risk of losing his zero.

    Retiring for 18 months went hand in hand with everything else that he did around that stage of his career.
     
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  3. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree he played the retirement game and vacation game to cherry pick fights.. Was the exact same blueprint SRL used ....and people have this narrative that Floyd offered Williams a fight and Williams turned it down? I could be wrong but I dont remember it that way
     
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  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    No. Williams lost to Quintana at the same time that Floyd retired, rematched him five or six months later, and moved to 160. Williams never really created the narrative at 147 to put himself in line for Floyd.
     
  5. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    ya the retirement game ^^^ was my point .... Williams had 1 loss and it was to a Southpaw .. Floyds a righty .. apples and oranges .. like I said, the narrative that Williams wasnt a fight for Floyd is just not true ...
     
  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It should be added that the division when Floyd came back was essentially the same minus Williams plus Pac. And Pac was smoking anyone, so at that stage the division was probably the best it has been during this century. Floyd and Pac should have faced off in 2010 to really fulllfill its promise, but that fell through because Pac refused a perfectly reasonable demand. A good one actually.

    And this comes from a guy that really wanted Pac to beat Floyd. I would have loooooved to see him lay Floyd out and in 2010 he had as good a chance as he was ever going to have, but he shat the bed. The man has had one of the most amazing careers in boxing history, but he really ****ed up there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
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  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Williams was at 160 after he rematched Quintana.

    It’s as valid as saying Floyd ducked Sergio Martinez.
     
  8. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Like I said did Floyd offer him a fight and Williams refused? You see , as one poster already mentioned, Floyd self managed himself right out of taking on better fights by cherry picking fights ,,,, In and out of retirement ... This is what I dont understand? If he does take on the better fighters and better fights, he has a good chance of winning !!! Then I would be right there with you saying this guy is a shoe in top 10 - 20 ATG ,,,, but he passed on it .. .I have always said this about Floyd ,, if he took on more risks and more fights and went 62-1 or 62-2 ... For me , his placement would move up BIG ...... but for me ,,, he is a #30 -40 guy
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Seriously, what sort of a joke is this?

    How are you this naive?

    A perfectly reasonable demand?


    1. It wasn’t at all reasonable in how it was put out there.

    2. Manny agreed to it but he wanted cut off days due to what had happened against Morales in 2005.


    That was more than reasonable at the time, especially with immediate after fight blood and urine tests which would have been included in the contract.


    Then you are also ignoring the following factors:


    1. They couldn’t compromise on the number of cut off days. Floyd wanted less, Manny wanted more.

    2. After a while, Manny then gave in and agreed to Floyd’s number of cut off days.

    3. Floyd then said that the cut off days were no longer acceptable or available.

    4. Manny then publicly agreed to every testing demand, yet the fight still took almost 2 years to make.

    5. The ironic thing is, that it was Floyd who was guilty of taking PEDS, as he was caught with an illegal IV which he and USADA purposely didn’t report to the NSAC.


    Anybody with even half a brain cell, should be able to realise that the fight not happening sooner had nothing whatsoever to do with any testing issues.

    If the testing was the sole reason why the fight never happened sooner, then Floyd would have:

    1. Tried to immediately have made the fight when Manny had backed down and agreed to a number of days that he deemed acceptable.

    2. Tried to immediately have made the fight when Manny backed down and agreed to every testing demand, which including full random testing up to the day of the fight.

    The fact that he did neither of those things speak volumes.


    It’s unbelievable to me that there’s still people out there that believe that Manny prevented this fight from happening.

    You don’t need to be Columbo to work out that if Manny had immediately agreed to everything, that Floyd would just have put up another obstacle to prevent it from happening.

    His uncle Roger had him spooked, telling him stories of A-Side Meth etc.


    Floyd only fought Manny when he wanted to fight him.

    It’s that simple.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    It requires pulling Floyd out of retirement and Williams not moving to 160 for that to happen.

    It’s a lot more valid to point out that he didn’t fight Martinez when the fight was high profile and totally winnable late in each of their careers.
     
  11. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Active Member Full Member

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    A fighter can be drained and not have it show up in a fight. Yes, Floyd was the big reason for it showing up for Corrales. What happened had little to do with weight I agree. But that does not mean Corrales was not drained. The weight issue being moot because of Mayweather's overall quality relative to Corrales also does not preclude that assertion. Gatti was undefeated at 130, didn't look worse there than at higher weights, but was still undeniably drained.

    16 pounds really isn't common even given Chico's height and reach. Similarly sized fighters like Gainer, who played that weight game at 126, was only 141 for his fight with Corrales. Ivan Robinson would put on even less.

    That big of a gain so early in a career is almost always a clear indication of weight mismanagement. If it's an intended advantage as you say, he would have employed it in other fights. Again, look at Gatti who routinely did this even in moving up. Here, we only see it when Chico struggled to make 130 or some years on when he was already a lightweight.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
  12. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Because everything he stated in that post is factually correct.

    He actually retired less than a year, technically speaking. That said, this is a strawman argument that in no way, shape, or form detracts from the factual accuracy of what @Bokaj stated.

    Interestingly enough, in terms of boxers who "minimize risk", you seem to be holding Floyd to a far higher standard than Roy. But the idea of minimizing risk is a different discussion, and even in the context of risk minimization, what Bokaj said is still 100% factually correct.

    On an unrelated note, if you have the chance (both of you, and anyone else reading this who has not yet participated), please check out the Survey pinned atop here in the Classic section.

    :thumbsup:
     
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  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It doesn’t matter if it was factually correct.

    Anybody can write something that is factual. But without applying the relevant context, it means nothing.

    Floyd sat out and watched everyone fight each other.

    We know why he did that.

    He has a history of being extremely calculated.

    Bokaj was sarcastic and exaggerated what he said.

    Nobody said that Floyd was terrified. He wasn’t. But it was a calculated decision.

    It doesn’t matter who he beat who when Floyd was sidelined. The fact is, it was a strong division, with lots of good fighters who’d have given Floyd very tough stylistic match ups if they could have been made.

    He walked away from an Oscar rematch, and a division that contained: Mosley, Cotto, Williams and Marg.

    He walked away and joined the WWE circus instead.

    Yes, it was a smart business move. Making millions of dollars for a scripted show where he gained more exposure without putting himself at risk. Very smart indeed. But boxing fans are going to rightfully criticise him for it.

    When you’re ranking him and looking at his greatness, this period of his career is extremely relevant.


    Regarding Roy, when did he ever retire for 18 months?

    For Roy’s 50th fight, he burnt muscle in 2 months in order to drop back to LHW from HW, in order to take on a prime Antonio Tarver, who was a very tough stylistic match up for him.

    For Floyd’s 50th fight, he fought an MMA fighter who’d never had a professional boxing match in his life.

    Roy then went on to fight Tarver again, whilst Floyd fought an exhibition against a tiny kick-boxer.

    Roy and Floyd are nothing alike.