Is Mayweather v Pacquiao not happening a good thing???

Took about ten minutes, typing on an Iphone and doing other stuff.



Bringing up Valdez and Baker; good wins for a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT as you like to put it. Not his best wins, no, didn't say they were.

But comparing that to what Floyd has? And comparing to Corrales/Judah to Moore/Charles in respect to our earlier debate on Rock/Floyd?

Well, I know whos argument has more credibility. IMO anyways, but it looks like neither of us will budge :good

 

You are picking hole in Marciano's resumé in terms of ages, so why not do the same for Mayweathers. As I said, I'm a Mayweather fan, but I'm looking at this from an unbiased, objective point of view.

Mosley was 38 years old, and didn't look like his true, primed self. He was coming off over a years inactivity and before had struggled with Ricardo Mayorga. Margarito was a great win, but one against an opponent who stylistically, he matched up terrifically against, holding all the advantages. Perhaps Margo also had other things on his mind, i.e, the wrap incident beforehand, I don't know. It's debatable whether this version of Mosley was 'elite competition', but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

De La Hoya, again, not in his prime. Coming off a years inactivity again, and having only fought Mayorga in between the Hopkins and Mayweather fights, almost a 2 and a half year gap. Mayweather also struggled badly with Oscar in the opening exchanges and it wasn't as comfortable as it should have been. It's again very debatable whether this version of Oscar was 'elite competition'.

Hatton is not an elite fighter, never was. World-class, yes, but true elite? Not in my opinion. We'd only seen him at world-level for a couple of years before the Mayweather fight. That included his best wins - still good wins - being over aging fights in Tszyu and Castillo. Of course when he stepped up to 147 and took on Collazo, a few felt he lost. He struggled badly. He didn't handle the weight well where his advantages where negated. Did Hatton ever beat a top-class primed fighter? No. Was he elite? No.

Marquez is an elite fighter, no doubt. Was he when he fought Floyd? Absolutely not. The weight is the main issue here. I mean you only need to look at the 09 version of Marquez from the Pacquiao rematch to see it wasn't the same one in the Floyd fight. He's aging aswell.

Corrales is probably the best win on his resumé in terms of the combination of quality of opponent, how peaked they were and his overall performance. But let's not kid ourselves, Corrales is no Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore or Ezzard Charles in terms of overall quality. You look at the Walcott from the first Marciano fight, and I think he was almost back to his best.

Charles had just disposed of Bob Satterfield in 2 rounds directly before the Marciano fight though. A Satterfield who had recently beaten Johnson & Baker and went on to defeat the likes of Cleveland Williams, Valdes and Summerlin. He may not have gone on to defeat top fighters, but what he did just beforehand serves as a reminder that he wasn't completely gone. I am debating that his is past his best.

Walcott's retirement obviously convenient leaves me with no way to argue that he never went on to beat a top fighter, but again, look what he did before. He'd just come off of two wins over Charles, and was not exactly far detatched from the version that beat Harold Johnson in 3 rounds. Again, look at him from the first fight. He looked pretty much peaked.

I'm pretty sure - without even knowing how old you are - that Flea and I are both younger than you.

But back to the point, the problem is with Mayweather, that Marciano did a few things that Floyd hasn't. Floyd didn't really clean out any division, not even super-feather where the likes of Freitas and Casamayor were hanging around as top 4 contenders. I'll forgive him on the Choi/Hatakeyama/Sim front as despite them all being consistent top 10 ranked, they were all fighting and beating each other and may have been difficult to tempt over to the States.

That's because boxing is in a weak era. Put Mayweather and Pacquiao in 1980, where do they stand on a P4P list that contains the likes of Holmes, Hagler, Leonard, Duran, Gomez, Sanchez and Pryor?

 

The advent of mass marketing, internet and media becoming more affordable has meant fighters have to take less risks.

Coupled with the number of belts, this makes it easier to make it appear you've achieved more than you actually have.

Question is, how many titles would Floyd have won in the day of one and less weight classes? Better still, what has Floyd done to usurp the amount of fighters who have already achieved more than him?

Again, people mistake me as a 'hater'. I'm not just up for giving people their dues over far more proven fighters.

 

It takes 2, 45000 combined posters to name fighters on Marciano's and Moore's record that wont stand the test of time as well as Mayweathers. My old fart remark was based on your posts which I must say is depressing for people just younger and just older than myself. I also find it bemusing that you can spend so much time combining to try and put down my reasonable argument when there are so many trolls/haters/racists on here that post freely without comment.

In the short time ive been here its clear that its just a boys club, bar the odd interesting poster and boxing people good enough to give their time.

Incidently I dont particularly agree that people will only remember Floyd's '0' if he retires (for good!) with it. He's a specially gifted boxer, has beaten WORLD level fighters in multiple divisions and remembering boxings a business made a **** load of money doing it. His arrogant nature will assure he dont just get remembered for not being beaten, still a feat in itself greater than Marciano, Calzaghe or ahem Ottke!

 

I think you're a good poster, I value your contributions IMMENSELY! :good

And trust me, I've altered responses to you before when I realised they were posts I'd usually direct at trolls; you are neither a troll nor a dick.

Trust me, no trolls can dodge my radar :yep I just think whilst saying I'm not picking or whatnot, it's exactly the same thing that everyone does for Floyd.

I'd definitely say Floyd is greater than Calzaghe, even though Joe has the better opponent on his resume (Hopkins, whom I rate very highly, moreso than Floyd) and Ottke:good

Also, post count means little here, I'd hope that at least some of my posts have had some real quality in there. Not quite sure where you've got it from that I use boxrec, but ho-hum...

 

Im gettin concerned with this box-rec comment, look through it again I dont mention the site you do twice now. i refer to your encyclopedic knowledge.

Hopkins was a great win, and a win it was no screw-job there it was close but a win nevertheless. Career overall, no contest and I stick to my guns that neither is Rocky's as tough as the blockbuster was.

As I said in the other thread I found your past posts interesting, a large number of them in fact. Lately though there's a lot of your contributions being spent on putting a new fighter on the forums radar that beats Floyd's record, very rarely giving credit for his technical efficiency. Its a waste of your, clearly, good boxing brain and could be used to educate the trolls which we spoke of about real boxing

 

Sorry I MUST'VE MISREAD AN EARLIER COMMENT (Oops caps)

I agree on trolls. I've stated many times that I don't doubt his technical efficiency, only that I've seen other fighters of at least that standard employ it against better opposition. Which means, IMO, Floyd should not be rated as highly as he often is.

 

I wasn't naming fighters on Moore's record to try and stand it up to Mayweather's. I was making a point about his HW resumé, which shows he is proven, having beaten Valdes - the #1 contender - and Baker - the #4 at the time I believe plus others.

If you want to stack Moore's resumé up to Mayweathers, which is what you seem to be suggesting, then there is absolutely no comparison. You are talking about the likes of Ezzard Charles, Jack Chase, Harold Johnson, Jimmy Bivins, Oakland Billy Smith, Eddie Booker, Joey Maxim, Lloyd Marshall, Bert Lytell and Holman Williams. If you weren't trying to stack up Moore's record to Mayweather, then what was that comment about?

I am not trying to 'put down your reasonable arguement'. I'm trying to have a debate with you, which is what usually goes on in boxing forums. If you can't have a reasoned debate without getting upset, maybe you should log-off.

 

**** you with your patronisation, im not upset im frustrated that you in particular arent even reading my posts and that trolls can spout utter garbage and get less grief off you old timers (as in on here touchy *****) Was stacking up Marcianos against Mayweathers dumbass and for the reasons ive stated over and over again I say Mayweather beats it. Moore at Lightheavy was a sensational fighter, a devastating puncher and an ATG i said that before you stuck your nose in so your arguments invalid. Ive stated my reasons that Moore hasnt beaten ELITE fighters (being number 1 and number 4 contender doesnt mean theyre great its a historically poor time for h/w which NEEDED Ali to spark it) at heavy only forgetable also rans and you yourself admitted Floyd has even with your reservations.

Pathetic

 

Yea you did, its clear who wiki's and boxrecs its 10000000% certain you aint one so apology accepted. Neithers Tommy even if I thinks being a twat atm

Well thats up for debate hence being here. To be controversial and go back to topic, he is one of if not the best techinician around today and has proved that frequently. For me its best boxer v best fighter as it stands today, we can look into the past and you guys have extensive knowledge of it mines ok and debate till the cows turn to horses but today, this era, 2010 Floyd is lb 4 lb 1 or 2 so is Manny get this ****ing fight on. Hell it might even end our little chats