Is Mike Tyson a top 10 HW?

Short answer is no, he’s top 20 imo but as mentally weak as he was it’s hard for me personally to rank him above some of the strong willed determined heavyweights that came before and after him, I will however say the only heavyweight of his era that I see beating him in his prime is Evander, just my opinion but I think prime Tyson with Cus beats bowe, Lewis, McBride, ect but no version of him beats Evander, and as for him against the fighters of yesteryear, so many cast iron guys that mentally he couldn’t intimidate that I can’t see him beating them if they made it past 4

 

My issue with Mike is he never beat an ATG who was anywhere near prime. The biggest fights of his career were against Holy. Now the Tyson supporters are quick to say Tyson was past it but wasnt Holy too. Besides that Holy was the guy that moved up to HW hes also the guy who looked like hell in his previous against Cyze while Tyson looked pretty good leading up to Holy. Then he loses the biggest upset in history. Oh but his supporters say he didnt train. Well isnt it his only job in life to train so who's fault is that. Tell the guy putting in 60 hours a week on an asphalt crew for 22 bucks an hour that Tyson didnt want to do his job for 4 hrs a day.

 

Styles make fights. Tyson only knew how to come in, Foreman only knew how to knock silly guys that were coming in.

It's so hard for me to imagine Tyson taking more than a couple of Foreman's power shots without crumpling (but that goes for most heavyweights.)

True, Mike had a good enough defense to perhaps delay the inevitable...one round.

But it's not just that. Foreman came off the canvas against Lyle and beat the **** out of him. Tyson is a way better fighter, but Lyle was quite the puncher himself and he landed flush on Foreman. So I can't see even a combination taking Foreman out of the picture in a Tyson fight...if he had to, he'd just get up.

Tyson never did that. When he was really hurt, it was over, whether by staying down or being a loser dickhead and biting.

Uh maybe I should remind folks that I DO think Mike more than belongs in the top ten lol!

 

Of course, Mike Tyson is a top 10 heavyweight.

 

A big factor in any sport really is quickness. Both hand and feet. George Foreman was deceptively quick but nowhere near as fast as Mike Tyson was with his hands. That would be an advantage Mike would bring into the ring that would be a problem for Foreman. As well as the fact that unlike Joe Frazier Mike was a two-handed threat 4 power. Frazier had two hands but he didn't really bother you with that right. He may sting you with it but he did not carry concussive power in his right like Mike Tyson did.
Tyson could counterpunch as well. I just think it could go either way. George Foreman may take him out but it'd be a lot more dangerous proposition because Mike Tyson was more explosive then Joe Frazier or Ron Lyle.

 

Tyson did have a good chin and perhaps he had a glass mind. The thing that bothered him more then a big power Punch or two was a guy that consistently peppered him. Joe Frazier could take punishment round after round and keep fighting his fight. He didn't take one big shot maybe as well as Mike but part of that baby mental toughness. In his prime in the late 80s we saw Mike Tyson get caught with some big punches. They were single shots usually from Frank Bruno or Tony Tucker, I think Bonecrusher Smith hit Tyson with a big punch in the last round. What usually happened is that Mike Tyson shut down those guys offense to where they were fighting to survive because they opened up they got smashed. So the punch output was way down and they were just trying to see the final Bell. These are good fighters not George Foreman but good fighters.

 

Talking about Joe Frazier, when he fought Jimmy Ellis in 1970 Jimmy Ellis had never been down as a heavyweight. Floyd Patterson never put him down. Frazier didn't struggle with Jerry Quarry. He walked through Quarry, and Jerry could punch, it was an impressive performance one that even made George Foreman wary watching it as a young contender.
Buster Mathis put up a good fight for a few rounds after that Joe Frazier was toying with him. Enjoying doling his revenge from the amateurs. Joe was having a good time in there.

Joe Frazier struggled with Bonavena mostly in 1966 his 12th pro fight. He went down and got off the canvas to win close. That is a credit to him that he was so tough to face a contender that early in his pro career. Who were Foreman and Tyson fighting in their 12th fights? Willie Falldown? And Kenny Getup?
2nd fight in 1968 Joe beat Oscar clearly without any drama because he was in his prime.
Just some perspective on the great Joe Frazier

 

Good stuff! Frazier gets a lot of crap on this forum so I don’t even usually chime in when he comes up....you know it’s amwzing that a one armed fighter with no jab even won the belt. Good post

 

Then you have to ignore all his accomplishments. Achievement matters in these ratings. He did more than most other heavyweights ever dream of

 

Thanks
Joe is my favorite so I got to defend him. Someone must have bought him a gold medal to in 1964 Tokyo games. Funny how Lucky Joe was man spoiled as hell people buying him gold medals buying him heavyweight titles, couldn't take a punch etc

 

That may be true of Tyson but do you have the same issue with the likes of Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis and Wlad? How many ATG heavyweights near their primes did they beat?

 

These are some excellent points. I'm definitely reconsidering my top 10 now. Good point about comparing Tyson's win over Holmes to Lewis' win over Holyfield.

 

This is the main thing keeping Tyson out of my top 5. Legacy fights are important, they're do or die. People would have given Ali a pass if he lost to Foreman. The fact that he won and also avenged his losses to Frazier and Norton is why he's held in such high regard.

You cant ask for Tyson to get a pass for all his losses then put him above other champions by focusing only on his prime (especially when other champions succeeded after losing). This is my main issue when discussing Tyson's legacy. You have to look at the whole picture for him if you look at the whole picture for other fighters.

 

When the going got tough how many of the above got going. When it really mattered and you had to dig deep Holy 1-2 Douglas Lewis Tyson got going that's the bottom line