Is Mike Tyson greater than Lennox Lewis on the all time greatest heavyweight ranking?

Tyson had more right answers than Lewis, but Lewis had fewer wrong answers than Tyson..... I hope that makes sense.

Lewis was the last man standing, and that resonates far better in retrospect than it does in real time. It doesn't mean that he was the best man standing; some styles are just better suited for longevity. Holyfield had seriously lost his potency by 1999 and was effective only in spurts. Bowe was finished in 1996 and Tyson post Holyfield lost the fluidity, speed and stamina to pull off his peek-a-boo style. Lewis was the only one who remained effective after his contemporaries expired.

While I give a lot of stock to longevity, Lewis's longevity isn't in the same context as Joe Louis, Larry Holmes or even Wladimir Klitshcko. While Lewis may have been relevant for a long period of time, he wasn't dominating the division for long period of time and the two are often conflated. The reason being that he was not THE MAN TO BEAT until 1999 when he beat Holyfield (in the first fight). So in effect his reign was from 1999-2003. Before that he was a Top Contender/Alpha Champ in the shadows of Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson.

Tyson's reign was from 1986 until 1990 which I think is a far more impressive than Lewis's 1999-2003. Their level of competition is roughly the same; in terms of quality of fighters beat, average age, win/loss record, etc. Lewis's resume only looks flashier because he has both Tyson and Holyfield in his win column ignore the fact that they were both shot and over the hill respectively. Not to mention that beating bigger punchers tend to get you more credit than beating crafty or slick boxers. Case in point Ruddock and Tucker who both fought Tyson and Lewis. The common denominator is that Tucker saw the final bell against both fighters while giving a good account of himself whereas Ruddock was stopped early by Lewis and stopped (controversially) by Tyson.

Mike Tyson:

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3) Razor Ruddock (#2 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies) X 2 25-1-1 / 25-2-1 (27 YRS OLD / 27 YRS OLD)

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10) Carl Williams (#1 Ranked IBF) 22-2 (29 YRS OLD)
11) Andrew Golota (#9 Ranked Contender WBC) 36-4 (32 YRS OLD)

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13) Tyrell Biggs (#1 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies) 15-0 (27 YRS OLD)

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15) Alex Stewart (#3 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies) 26-1 (25 YRS OLD)

TOTAL WIN/LOSS/DRAW OPPONENT RECORD: 510-33-4 (93% WIN RECORD) (AVG AGE: 30.05)

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10 CHAMPIONS FOUGHT

Lennox Lewis

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2. Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock (#1 Ranked Contender WBC) 25-3-1 (28 YRS OLD)

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5. Ray Mercer 23-3-1 (35 YRS OLD)
6. Tommy Morrison (#2 Ranked Contender WBC) 45-2-1 (26 YRS OLD)
7. David Tua (#1 Ranked Contender WBC) 37-1 (27 YRS OLD)
8. Andrew Golota (#1 Ranked Contender WBC) 28-2 (29 YRS OLD)

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10. Frank Bruno (#5 Ranked Contender All 3 bodies) 36-3 (31 YRS OLD)

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12. Micheal Grant (#2 Ranked Contender WBC/IBF) 31-0 (28 YRS OLD)

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TOTAL WIN/LOSS/DRAW OPPONENT RECORD: 523-33-6 (93% WIN RECORD) (AVG AGE: 30.73)

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8 CHAMPIONS FOUGHT (Holyfield was a former Lineal Champion but was a current champion holding the WBA/IBF belts when he met Lewis).

Mike Tyson turned pro 4 years before Lewis. Joe Frazier turned pro 4 years before Foreman. How well would a 41 year old Joe Frazier do fighting in 1986. Better yet how about a 36 year old Frazier in 1982?

 

1. The $13.5 million was a real offer not an alleged one and it was rejected by Lewis's camp. You can say all you want about Lewis not wanting to accept terms from King, except the difference here is that in the end Lewis accepted terms from King when he fought Holyfield in 1999 for a guarantee of $3.5 million less than what he was offered against Tyson in 1996.

The situation was far more fluid than you seem to recall. Lewis had struggled to a controversial MD against an aging Ray Mercer who was supposed to be his tune up fight two months prior. Around that same time period Bowe was getting ready to fight his tune up, Golota, hoping for either a Lewis fight or the super fight with Tyson and Lewis was looking for vice versa.

I've heard of people complain about how many excuses are given for Mike Tyson, but Lennox Lewis takes the cake! Lewis is virtually unchecked when it comes to excuses; he prances around like the division's white knight when he's really a pampered prima donna superstar who frequently prices himself out of fights (turns down then career high offer of $11 million from Bowe in 1993, turns down then career high offer from Tyson $13.5 million in 1996) while claiming he's being ducked. When the shoe is on the other foot, he relinquishes the belt without a fuss (WBA for failing to face his mandatory John Ruiz in 2000) or sells a belt (IBF to Don King $1 million and a Range Rover rather than face the mandatory Chris Byrd in 2002) or he runs away from his rematches ($20 million offer for a Mercer rematch in 1997 which he rejected, $25 million dollar offer from HBO for a Klitschko rematch in 2003 which he chose to look for a Kirk Johnson fight and when that wasn't possible and Vitali stopped Johnson early, Lewis retired).

The lengths that Lewis went to avoid his rematches and mandatories were extraordinary.

Could you imagine if the Wills or Langford was offered a career high purse from Tex Rickard to face Jack Dempsey and they turned it down because they "didn't like the terms?"

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-07-21/sports/sp-15342_1_lennox-lewis

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/04/sports/boxing-bronchitis-stops-tyson-seldon-fight-is-off.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/10/...s-mercer-tries-charity-for-lewis-rematch.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/lewis-wins-ibf-case-but-may-lose-wba-belt-283754.html

https://www.nydailynews.com/archive...-belt-tournament-title-works-article-1.503759

 

Say what,

The Tyson of the Lewis encounter was so shot beyond shot its not even funny but even that fat shell of a shell won the first round.....

But I like your game, after all Berbick destroyed Ali and Marciano beat louis so naturally both beat any version of the aformentioned by your logic.

Conclusion: Lewis was ko'ed with one punch twice by absolute palookas in his absolute prime........that makes him a underdog in my book H2H against many skilled PRIME punchers with brute strength and skill

 

LOL@you

So he does not want to deal with King but begs to work with King to fight washed up Oldiefield.........it takes two to Tango and Lewis gladly accepted step aside money without a fuss from Tyson/King......you probably were not even born then but Lewis had zero pull or drawing power back then and was seen as a distant 3rd or fourth behind Tyson/Holy/Bowe. Lewis became a player after the cream was all washed up or self destructed and the HBO hype team got around him........the vast majority of his signature wins where already defused or severely beaten down by Tyson/Holy or Bowe years before Lewis got a hold of them.

Fact: a large portion of this board calls Tyson a front running bully who folded any time somebody "stood" up to him but in return the same D bags call a washed up version vs Holy and a totally shot version vs Lewis the greatest wins ever of those two...........basically by beating that bum Tyson they reached the zenith of glory.

 

That offer was claimed to have been made by Don King and that’s what is being reported on. So what?
It’s alleged and I have seen no corroboration of that claim. In any event, the size of the offer was rendered insignificant, given the reasons I have already explained to you.

This isn’t about me saying all I want about Lewis not wanting to accept King’s terms. It’s about relaying actual facts, relevant to the actual circumstances. King’s terms for Holyfield/Lewis differed significantly, in that a Lewis victory would not tie him to King, promotionally, barring his first defense or a rematch with Holyfield.

You’re also forgetting that Lewis was not a Mandatory challenger in this case, either. No potential for purse bids. This was a negotiated bout between two stakeholders of the World Championship.

Other than the fact Lewis beat Mercer, that bout has no bearing on the the fact that Lewis was the WBC's Mandatory Challenger, both prior to and after their fight. I can’t see why you keep bringing Mercer up, as if it were somehow influential. It wasn’t.

It seems you have a beef with Lewis and have had to stray off-point, because you can't answer some fundamental questions about the King/Tyson avoidance tactics, laid out for you in my previous post.

These other talking points you raise are, of course, interesting but have nothing to do with the fact that Tyson didn't want to face Lewis in 1996.

It’s hardly the same thing and this just demonstrates your inability to understand or unwillingness to accept the circumstances in the case of Tyson/Lewis.

Lewis signing over his promotional rights to King, as part of the deal, was as good a reason as any to reject King's offer.

 

Lewis didn't dump the WBA belt. He was stripped of the belt by a Federal Judge.

 

You're a moronic Lewis detractor, who doesn't know what a "Fact" is.

 

Total load of crap. He was not shot, he was exposed. Coming in he destroyed Golota, Savarese and Neilson .. what happened is that the same Tyson could not compete with a prime Lewis who was a huge step above the rest that he sill beat up. Tyson's legacy is basically an 18 month prime .. a shooting star .. Lewis was a marathon and accomplished a lot more over longer time , and squashed him H2H.

 

Excellent post.

 

A more compelling comparison would be Tyson and Holyfield. That's a damn tough one.

 

Historian ? Film maker ? What, in stand up Comedy because if you call a 2002 medicated Tyson impersonator Prime then I have some ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.

Conclusion : Boxing knowledge = Nil..........biased blind Nut hugging you are swinging Gold.

 

Historian ? Film maker ? What, in stand up Comedy because if you call a 2002 medicated Tyson impersonator Prime then I have some ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.

Conclusion : Boxing knowledge = Nil.........biased blind Nut hugging you are swinging Gold.

 

So you're basically a poor reader and respond by spewing stupidity. You got nothing. NP.

 

Lewis should rate higher. Tyson fans used to be a bit out there, but I think they have settled down over the years

 

Delivering cold, hard facts is considered going into "over-drive", these days, is it?