Is MMA in the West growing, at its peak, or dying?

its running at about 65% of its peak.
for all the naysayers saying mma will fade out and die off i say this. when you introduce the mma heavyweight champion of the world your essentially introducing the man recognised as the toughest in the world.
There is ALWAYS going to be a market for that.
If mma was to somehow slump in popularity for some unknown reason the very worst it could do is end up as a niche sport along the same levels of popularity as bodybuilding.
which is still pretty huge.

 

**** dana white.

 

I dont know about dying but the UFC still hasnt replaced Chuck as the face of the sport, and I dont think Jones is the man to do that

Personally for me MMA has been losing steam since the last great Tournament at PRIDE in 06

The excitement which used to be the norm is now becoming a rare treat

 

I think both GSP and Brock have more than replaced Chuck.

And on the "excitement which used to be the norm" point, surely this is relative? There are more shows now so that means less of them are the big shows that you get super psyched for. That however doesn't automatically mean there are less shows you get super psyched for - it could be that there's just that there's more run-of-the-mill shows filling out the schedule.

 

No they havent. The GSP of the Hughes 2 fight could if he regains that fire, and if Brock recaptures his Mir 2 brutality he would keep the WWE/Mainstream cross over appeal. But it's highly unlikely that either will. I think both have peaked in terms of popularity already. GSP is content to win rounds rather than fights, dont think that will keep drawing in the punters for the duration. Fans in MMA, for better or worse, want to see people getting ****ed up. Go read Sherdog for how the average fan thinks, most people in this forum are mostly hardcore fans. The Sherdog demographic are where the $$$'s are at though

There are more show, but most of the cards, especially above LW, are now filled with substandard strikers compared to K1 and boxing and wrestlers with big right hands. The next UFC card is being headlined by Leben and Munoz...

I am speaking very generally of course, but you'd be hard pressed to name me some examples of American fighters above 155 who do not fit this bill. And Im sure you'll agree with me that the Yanks need an American to root for, wether Jones can do that only time will tell. I hope he can

 

You do not read Sherdog for what the average fan thinks. The average fan is not spending any amount of time on any internet message board.

On what basis is Liddell in 2007 a bigger star than GSP or Lesnar is today? Did he ever draw a $10million gate with 55,000 fans in attendance like St. Pierre did this year? Did he ever draw over a million buys on pay per view twice in one year like Lesnar did last year? Does he have the bluechip sponsors that GSP or Lesnar have managed to attract? I honestly don't see what metric you can find for saying that.

And of course MMA strikers are inferior to boxing or kickboxing, in the same way that MMA wrestlers are inferior to wrestling. You train anything exclusively you'll be better than somebody who's asked to train that alongside five other things. There's plenty of Americans who aren't doing the wrestler shtick - Velasquez has pretty technical striking and other than against Kongo has hardly LnP, Jones absolutely is dynamic striking and obviously Nick Diaz volume punched his way to a big fight last Saturday.

And no I don't think the Americans need an American to root for. Manny Pacquiao is far more popular than Floyd Mayweather for example. They need fighters that are captivating personalities and who put the work in to promote their fights in America (which on both counts the Klitschkos for example fail).

And Leben/Munoz is a television card - its no worse or no better than the type of fights UFC was putting on television when they first got Spike.

 

Who else have they got? Frankie maybe, still a decision fighter though, Cruz ditto, Cain has a good Mexican cross over appeal but not sure if he can pull that demographic away from boxing

Jay Leno fought Hogan at a WCW event and it got some of it's highest ratings. But it's in no way a long term guarantee that they will keep those viewers interested
Not trying to imply that the UFC will go the same way that the WCW did just to clarify

That's one match, name some more that will get anyone other that the hardcore fired up? Cain v JDS is only a few takedowns away from potentially reminding that audience of why they dont watch the NCCA (I dont think it will be but it's a possibility) and likewise Sonnen v Silva

I dont think that MMA is dying. But I dont think you can count Brock's WWE crossover and GSP's Canadian support as a sign that MMA is rising exponentially despite Dana still crowing ''It's the fastest growing sport in the world'' especially when cards without them are hitting 60k at best

 

Two things

1. I think you're placing too much emphasis on in-ring excitement. Personalities sell fights, not the action. Silva became a bigger draw in 2009 when he developed a larger than life persona than in 2006-2008 when he was politely knocking dudes out.

2. Do you mean 600K? In either case its not really true as Anderson Silva's last two US fights have passed the 600K mark, and UFC 126 actually passed 700K. And in any case 600K is not a bad number - its a great number! Other than Pacquiao/Mayweather fights boxing hasn't got above 200,000 buys in years and WWE usually only gets above 400,000 buys domestic for Wrestlemania. The fact that Jones is already doing 500,000 buys for his title defenses is something to celebrate not commiserate.

To me this has been a rebuilding for the UFC. I'm not going to argue with anybody who says the year has felt flat because with so many big fights falling through it has. But just like in 2007 when they went through a similar transitional phase its important not to read too much into it.

 

But if you want to use the internet to get a look into what an average fan thinks that's my point. That place is filed with the 17-35 demographic that PPV's thrive on

Because I heard a group of 5 guys talking about MMA in work the other week, and they were all talking about Liddel, one of them even described Rashad Evan's as a ''beast'' because he beat him. Like it or not Will, you think of the UFC, you think of Liddel, like Jordan and NBA, that's what I meant by the face of the UFC. Lennox Lewis took over as the undisputed Heaveyweight Champ and had a good run. But he was always in the shadow of Mike Tyson. Why? Because Mike knocked people out brutally. Im talking about entertainment, not skill level. People pay $'s to be entertained.

They have those types of opportunities because of the mean looking mother****er with a mowhawk got MMA noticed, will another 5 round GSP decision or Brock cowering from strikes keep them there.

My point stands, the still havent replaced Chuck as the face of the UFC, they have more $'s because of him. But will they keep that revenue without someone like him, who knows

That's two (Kongo doesnt count, he's either on the back foot or pressing against the cage)
And unless you got round everyone's house and explain why the striking in MMA isnt as good as boxing, then I doubt they will understand why the like's of Kongo and Mittrione are being described as high level strikers by Goldy and Rogan, because that's not what we are seeing

I think I covered this with the Chuck thing

Showing disdain for the UK fan base is not the way to expand the sport over here.

 

I'm going to take actual business metrics rather than a conversation you overheard amongst coworkers. And yes Lewis was in the shadow of Tyson, and you could see that by the fact he wasn't the same level of draw as Tyson. Both GSP and Lesnar are bigger draws than Liddell ever was. The UFC not once but twice has had its biggest ever year (2009 and 2010) when Liddell was out of title contention, being begged by Dana White to retire and reduced to one throwaway fight a year.

P,S, And I didn't say Kongo was a top level striker - I said that the only fight Velasquez has used lay and pray was against him.