Is Muhammed Ali a better boxer than Joe Fraizer(prime)?

IMHO, unfortunately, we did not see Ali's prime (1967-70). Again IMHO Ali's prime is above Frazier's prime. And so Ali beat Frazier in the trilogy without controversy.

 

If we tend to be realistic, Ali was not prime then either.

 

Frazier was never the same as a fighter after the FOTC that he won but he always got it up for Ali, and especially in Manila, because of his utter hatred for the man.

My answer is that if prime Frazier fought 1966/67 Ali, Ali would have settled the matter then and there would not have been a rivalry. (A lesser Ali lost to him in 1971 but beat the ever loving crap out of him in the process.)

 

The second fight “Super Fight 2” proved that the answer was more cagey, stationary even.
No amount of extra waltzing and leggy business would stop Frazier he had to abandon that notion he would be taught that lesson in the 60s again if they’d met then.
Ali had flaws, Futch saw them and so did Louis who wrote a similar outline to the one executed by Norton - not every opening can be sealed shut with athleticism.

 

Frazier-Ali 2 wasn't a particularly good fight. It was marred by Ali's tactic of repeatedly grabbing and pulling Joe by the back of his head. The referee should have ordered him to stop.

 

Looks like you’re asking who would win peak-for-peak? I favour Frazier there…the Ali industry has been downplaying the FotC & wildly exaggerating how much Ali had lost during his exile since the moment the final bell rang, but the fight was in reality extremely close, in an odd way - Ali completely dominated the opening third of the fight, then Frazier had his way for the vast majority of the next two acts, with a smattering of Ali bright spots balancing the affair. The overall outcome was tight - I had it for Frazier by two points, meaning it was dead even on my card going into the last round.

Much will be made of Ali being post-exile but for mine, he would always have had to lose one to Frazier in order to beat him later. He under-estimated his man in 1971, after he’d been out of the ring a while. Am I to believe an Ali who was undefeated Champion with about five or six dominant defenses under his belt around 1969 wouldn’t misjudge Frazier as an easy night!? Frazier would always have won their first meeting & Ali said he thought so, too.

Now you could say Ali was better, because his career achievements outstrip Frazier’s, & he would win more head-to-head matches with the greats, which I think Ali would.

 

I believe Prime Muhammad Ali was better than prime Joe Frazier. Frazier had the style to somewhat trouble any version of Ali, but that would not have been as noticeable against a prime version of Ali, in my view.

 

Frazier would always be a problem for Ali....Boxers hate swarmers...and Joe was one of the best!

 

I don’t disagree with you but I don’t think the younger Ali who could move for 15 rounds and still had good hands and was a crisp and destructive puncher would have let Frazier battle back to that extent, although Frazier as people have noted would never be an easy day at the office for Ali. I would never say that there’s absolutely zero way Frazier could win bouts in an extended series with the younger Ali, but I think more often than not Ali would win a lopsided decision and mess Joe’s face up really badly.

 

That was reported at the time, the discussion isn’t just retroactive. Frazier whined about it at the time, but the referee was quoted as saying it wasn’t illegal because he wasn’t holding and hitting, and many of the columnists at the time praised it as good strategy to negate Joe’s strengths.

Sometimes I think Joe’s fans act like Ali should have just let him get inside like he had the sacred right to do so, and think Perez cost Joe a sure and deserved victory. Which I don’t think was the case.

And my .02 is that if Perez called it too loosely in 1974, Padilla called it too tightly in 1975.

 

Ali looked amazing in the mid to late 60’s…against guys like Chuvalo, Terrell & past-it versions of Patterson & Folley. You fight as well as you’re allowed by the quality of your opposition.

 

This is so true… he didn’t even look good against some of those guys.
If Shavers was fed guys he could dominate and came back 3 years later to fight real competition we’d talk about his lost prime to.

 

Frazier was absolutely not washed. Past prime yes but he still had more in the tank as show by his fights against Ellis and Quarry.