Is Muhammed Ali a better boxer than Joe Fraizer(prime)?

Ali was always a better boxer, Frazier was a better fighter though

 

I've always said Ali never beat Frazier, he merely escaped him.

 

While the FOTC wasn't very close and, yeah, Frazier pretty much dominated Ali, that wasn't prime Ali. The Ali of the Cleveland Williams and Ernie Terrell fights was prime Ali. Go watch the Williams fight -- Ali looks superhuman in that fight.

Doesn't mean Frazier might not have got him prime vs. prime. Styles and all.

 

Joe Frazier would also look superhuman against that Williams. My mother might.

 

Frazier would look superhuman against any version of Williams, though I don't know about your mother.

 

For the record, FOTC was a two-point fight on one scorecard and a three-point fight on another scorecard … the only judge who didn’t have it close was Bill Recht and I have always wondered what fight he was watching … and if Ali could somehow have won the 15th round he’d have gotten a draw on Arthur Mercante’s card.

 

Ranked contenders, George Chuvalo and Mac Foster certainly didn’t.

 

I agree. I don’t see the domination others do. The UPI for example had it a 7-7-1 draw.

 

Australians are truly terrifying

 

It absolutely was a clear win for Frazier. It wasn’t a dominating win.

 

I haven’t seen these fights but he did lose them all. What are the particulars?

He had massive, lasting damage from his gunshot wound, as I’m sure you’re aware. Quite incredible he was boxing at all let alone at that level.

 

While I agree, that Williams was shot, I also think Ali's performance gets unfairly dismissed because of Williams condition. I thought Ali's performance was stellar independent of his opponent.

Chuvalo struggled greatly against an even more depleted version of Williams, and was rocked several times by his own admission. Mac Foster suffered a ruptured ear drum in their first fight, and was nearly knocked out in the second bout against again, an even more far gone Williams.

It's not like just any random contender could've replicated what Ali did.

 

I also have the FOTC closer than most.

To escape the seeming paradox of acknowledging measures of domination on the part of both men whilst also interpreting a close fight at the same time, I would break the fight down into segments during which each man shined that much more than the other - somewhat similar to the dynamic of was the Thrilla in Manila.

Re The FOTC, I believe Ali dominated Joe through at least the first 4 rounds - but then Ali tired, which gave Joe the opportunity to come on.

Throughout the fight the commentary team marvelled over how much punishment Frazier could take while still being able to move forward and fight.

At various points during the fight the commentary team also wondered how much more punishment Joe could endure.

Ali scored a LOT on Frazier but as least as far the commentators sentiments went, Joe was still receiving credit for same - even when he was getting belted. Ali wasn’t so much a fan favourite as at the time.

Speed kills, particularly phenomenal speed as well as an inexhaustible tank to fuel that speed - prime Ali had both.

I see prime Ali giving Joe the same heavy going over (at the very least) that he did give Joe in The FOTC over the first 4 rounds.

However, unlike in the FOTC, Ali doesn’t tire and the fight becomes exponentially worse for Frazier as each and every round goes by - and a later round stoppage in Ali’s favour certainly isn’t out of the question.

 

Spot on.