Is nobody here giving helenius a chance against wilder?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by anjawnaymiz, Sep 6, 2022.


  1. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I've actually just watched the Helenius Kownacki highlights... and first off... what a headcase Kow is. I don't think I've seen such a low blow display since Golota. Crazyness.

    Anyways...

    I've gotta say, I'll be happy to be wrong here but I really think they picked the wrong comeback opponent for Wilder.

    Someone else mentioned they've been sparring partners before, so that is a good sign I'd think (though not necessarily... everyone has sparred everyone at some point) but at least Wilder will know what to expect and have some experience already.

    But idk... I think a healthy and motivated Helenius is just a bad risk right now.

    Then again I do have to remember that Whyte beat Helenius... puts it into perspective a bit I guess.

    Still though, I find this to be a risky assignment for Wilder and I'm not quite sure why they chose him.

    Wilder is rightfully favored of course... but this has potential to turn into a physical back and forth brawl that will do Wilder no favors at this stage and getting stopped here himself wouldn't be overly shocking, imo.

    I think Charles Martin or Miller would have been a better selection for a comeback fight.
     
  2. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    Very dangerous fight for him. Helenius is coming off the best form he's had since at least 2011. He will definitely be motivated and they may have bitten off more than they can chew like with Fury I. It's a big mistake if they're expecting the guy who lost to Washington and Duhaupas to show up on the night - This is a much better Helenius. Nobody will be surprised if he wins this in early devastating fashion, but an upset especially on the back of those two thrashings to Fury should not be ruled out. Barring the Fury and Ortiz fights this is easily the best matchup Wilder has had in his career on paper.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
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  3. BeantownAll

    BeantownAll Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'd give Helenius a small chance of pulling off the upset.

    After a couple of difficult stops and nearing age 37, it's at least possible that Deontay Wilder is getting shot or thereabouts. He has mileage on his clock now and he's highly-flawed technically.
     
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  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    They walked Wilder into a trilogy with Fury... so idk.

    Saying Helenius has zero chance in this fight is a bit strange though, all things considered.
     
  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wilder is coming off brutal back-to-back stoppage losses which ended a nearly 12-year unbeaten streak. While Helenius is coming off two of the most impressive wins of his career back-to-back, and has spent countless rounds mimicking Tyson Fury in sparring sessions with Wilder.

    If Helenius was ever going to beat Wilder, this is the moment.
     
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  6. MorvidusStyle

    MorvidusStyle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I give him a chance.
    Helenius hits harder than Fury. He's always seemed pretty skilled, in decent shape and is obviously big.
    But I'm worried he is a bit slow to avoid Wilder's assaults and also land his own.
    Hopefully he times Wilder and KO's him though.
     
  7. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I completely understand your opinion and agree with many elements
    of it, especially his technical flaws but to be as old as Wilder is he doesn't have a lot of wear and tear at his age especially as rounds go.
    Honestly my opinion of Helenius is pretty low. I like your objectivity, it's very difficult
    as a boxing fan, I know.
     
  8. vast

    vast Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He doesn't have much of a chance unless he is in top shape and sopt on.
     
  9. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    He has an outside punchers chance so the odds are stacked against him. They've sparred extensively and Wilder being so risk adverse wouldn't pick Helenius unless he's confident of victory. Helenius beating Wilder for me would be like Ruiz beating Joshua a total shock.
     
  10. Ilesey

    Ilesey ~ Full Member

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    He’ll have a chance however I’m fully expecting Wilder to catch a slow moving Helenius and stop him by the mid way point.

    A non elusive ageing fighter will at some point be a sitting duck.

    The bigger question mark is how much Wilder has left and how he rebounds.
     
  11. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    Wilder:

    1. Winless since November 2019

    2. Will have only completed 10 rounds in the previous 32 months and have been inactive for 12 months

    3. Accrued a lot of injuries throughout his career, possibly including a ruptured left eardrum in one or both of his last two fights

    4. Will be just about to turn 37

    5. Made a massive amount of money in his last two fights, has his investments and enjoys activities outside the ring (music, cologne, scuba diving)

    6. Brutal, ego destroying back to back KO defeats to Fury after an unbeaten run spanning 12 years, 43 fights and 10 consecutive heavyweight title defences over 5 years

    7. Has been pressured to come back and will have concerns that returning will further damage his health and tarnish his reputation/legacy, especially if he comes back a significantly diminished fighter but if Wilder returns and does well he’ll be indirectly boosting Fury’s legacy by extension, so in a way he can’t win

    8. Feels he has accomplished his primary goal, which was to become a world champion and support his disabled daughter “beyond belief”

    9. Articulated feelings of diminished motivation, conspiracies against him (if he truly believes this, won’t he probably be set up to lose again?) and has contemplated retirement

    10. Knows that a loss to Helenius would be hugely embarrassing and would end his career and that he’s not just expected to win but to win in one-sided, devastating fashion


    Helenius:

    1. Big

    2. Big puncher

    3. Highly experienced as an amateur and pro

    4. Little weight of expectation and close to the end of his career, nothing to lose

    5. Good reasons to be motivated

    6. Has seen Fury execute an effective pressure gameplan twice, believes Wilder is shopworn

    7. Three KO wins over former belt holders (Brewster, Peter, Liakhovich)

    8. Three KO wins on the road as a wide underdog (Teper, Kownacki x2)

    9. In the best form of his career


    Helenius is a 5/1 underdog so the bookmakers are giving him a 16.7% chance. That's a far better chance than Douglas was given against Tyson, Rahman against Lewis, Sanders against Wlad and Ruiz against AJ.
     
  12. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    It's so they can give Wilder zero credit. Claiming this is a risk-averse choice of opponent for Wilder's first fight back coming off brutal back to back KO defeats is bending the facts to fit the theory.
     
  13. zelky

    zelky Well-Known Member Full Member

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    "Dive" Squad. No chance Helenoius "wins".
     
  14. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    Boxing journalist Stephen Edwards reckons it's intended to be "sink or swim" matchmaking:

    "Wilder is now a PPV fighter. He commands a certain amount of money. He has to fight someone credible. Helenius is on his career best run with his wins over Adam Kowanacki and he looks the part. Maybe those that made this match are saying to themselves, if Wilder can’t beat Helenius at this point, commanding the kind of money he commands, then what are we doing. I don’t know what they’re saying. But I know how boxing works."
     
  15. LD Boxer-Puncher

    LD Boxer-Puncher Well-Known Member Full Member

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