Liddell is probably the most underrated fighter on this forum. he has fought every type of opponent and more high level strikers than anderson, Gsp, or jones. yet he is consistently critised for matchup favouritism.atsch I have to disagre with you scurla on lyoto. machida is a win Jones deserves full credit for, the rest were all very good wins (Shogun rampage evans) but not on the level with machida win who looked to be in top form.
So if Jones is not even close to being the GOAT, who are all the guys ahead of him? Chuck and Wanderlei, so far. There must be a few more for him to not even be close. Prime for prime, would you favor them against Jones? Has Jones even hit his prime yet? What happens if he beats Hendo? Will he go from not even close to having a fair claim?
People that rate jones over wand, liddel, shogun. usually use this argument as their basis. H2h is speculative, how then can that hold more weight than actual accomplishments? Jones is getting there, he is close he hasnt surpassed the big three in my mind yet.
I more just saying things out loud right now, or whatever the typing equivalent of that cliche is. I'm too tired to actually be arguing.
:think This is true. But although his resume is already pretty solid, it's the manner of the victories that impresses more than the numbers. Total domination over the best available competition. Add his incredible physical gifts and dedication to improving his game and becoming the best ever, it's easy to rate him a bit higher because he is still pre-prime. This is not the best version of Jon Jones. :yep I think that on the back of his incredible year coupled with his age and continuing evolution, some people rate him a little bit according to what they think he'll be 2 years from now. :good :hat
But why would you take points away from a guy for exploiting his tremendous physical advantages. :huh It's about how tough they are relative to their peers. So far Jon Jones is most of the way through cleaning out the light-heavyweight division. Everybody he's fought has gotten a one-sided beating, whether on the feet or on the ground. You can't mark Jones down for his frame any more than you can mark Fedor down for his unparalled combination of speed, power, chin and fighting instinct. Or GSP for his intelligence and all-round athleticism, or Silva for his freakish timing and co-ordination. :nono :hat
John Jones is as complete as either one. Fedor is greater. GSP has beaten the best fighters. But Jon Jones is the most talented and complete.
JJ tore through a stacked division. He is immensely talented AND gifted. He hasn't seen a match yet. The only thing that he hasn't showed is that he knows how to fight walking backwards, e.g Liddell. No one has has been able to force him to fight that fight, because of his physical advantages. The ONLY reason I would not consider him the GOAT 205 is that he hasn't held on to the belt for long enough.
Big Nog looked beatable at times like in the Bob Sapp fight. He didnt always tool his opponents in the same way Fedor did sure he got the whose who list as a resume. Fedor also doesnt have as any loses in his prime like Big Nog has which is also a factor
:good You can't mark Jones down for never fighting his way clear of adversity, if he's been good enough to avoid adversity. Fedor gettting dropped on his head and getting the submission 2 seconds later is great, but it's better if nobody is able to pick you up and drop you on your head to start with. Jones' quality of opposition is good enough that he gets significant credit for making all his fights noncompetitive events. And Jones hasn't held the title long, but he's racking up the defences. He has three so far. Liddell defended four times. :good :hat
JJ is can crusher, he's lucky he was born Black. DW is desperate to have color in his promotion. He's faced easy opposition.
Yeah, I think he becomes the GOAT at 205 if he defends the belt 5-6 times, which he'll probably do in 2012 - 2013.
