Is Pacquiao impossible?-Why Steroid accusations are baseless?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by YAGBOLSCO, Dec 24, 2009.


  1. YAGBOLSCO

    YAGBOLSCO Member Full Member

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    Aug 21, 2009
    Wednesday, December 23, 2009
    Posted By Avi "Shoefly" Korine 4:00 PM
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    First, let me say that I resent this whole thing. I'm not interested in steroids, never have been. Barry Bonds was my favorite baseball player and I haven't watched a game since he was run out of the game.

    Furthermore, if I wanted to write about steroids I would be a baseball writer. (Mostly, I resent that it forced me to make the chart above, which I'll explain and repeat later.)

    But things are what they are, so lets look at it. There has been absolutely no evidence - circumstantial or otherwise - that Manny Pacquiao has used steroids. There have been no rumors from his camp or unsavory characters with a suspicious past surrounding him.

    All we have is the speculation of Floyd Mayweather Sr. that Pacquiao is a steroid user, not exactly the most trustworthy source. Floyd Sr. has been crowing that Pacquiao's reluctance to give blood samples so close to the fight proves that he is right. Floyd says, "Like I said from the start, that was just my opinion. It's a lot of people's opinions now. For that kind of money how could you not take the test? There's a reason."

    Whatever the reason, did or does Mayweather Sr. have cause to be suspicious in the first place? His argument, and that of those who believe him, has largely been based on Pacquiao's swift move up through the weight classes.

    The argument goes something like; "In March, 2008 Pacquiao was fighting Juan Manual Marquez at the super featherweight limit of 130 pounds. In November, 2009 he beat Miguel Cotto in the welterweight division. It's impossible to gain 17 pounds (or the 15 for the 145 pound catchweight) in such a short period of time."

    This speculation is not enough to conclusively prove anything, but it is evocative. Such a large weight gain over such a short period of time is, indeed, suspicious.

    But is that what actually happened? As all boxing fans know making weight is not a simple thing. When a fighter comes in at the lightweight limit of 135 they can put on any amount of weight above that in the thirty hours before the fight takes place. To see Pacquiao's growth, I went back and took screenshots of the tale of the tape of his most recent fights. His actual in-ring weight tells a far different story than the one Floyd Mayweather Sr. and the steroid skeptics would have you believe.
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    Pacquiao vs. Morales: November, 2006
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    Pacquiao vs. Barrera: October 2007 (Sorry I couldn't get a bigger version. Pacquiao's official weight was 130, and in-ring was 144.)
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    I couldn't find a shot of Pacquiao Vs. Marquez in March 2008, but Pacquiao's official weight was 129. (UPDATE: I FOUND IT: NOTE: Pacquiao's in-ring weight is not reflected in the graph.)

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    Pacquiao vs. Diaz: June, 2008
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    Pacquiao vs. De La Hoya: December, 2008.
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    Pacquaio vs. Hatton: May, 2009
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    Pacquiao/Cotto: November, 2009. No in-ring weight given.

    Now, what does this all tell us? From November of 2006 until May of 2009 Pacquiao's in-ring weight only changed by four pounds. His body could have changed in many ways, but there is no way to argue he put on an impossible to believe fifteen or seventeen pounds unless you think he suddenly ballooned after the Cotto fight. Below is a chart marking Pacquiao's growth from the final Morales fight until his more recent fight with Miguel Cotto.
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    As we can see in this chart, Pacquiao's official weight has jumped quite rapidly, but his actual in-ring weight has remained very consistent.

    Again, this doesn't provide evidence that Pacquiao is not using steroids. For all we know he is using everything under the sun. The point is that the underlying basis for the suspicion that Pacquiao is doping is based on a false premise. Manny Pacquiao has not gained an incredible amount of muscle mass. Instead he has simply ceased to drain such a huge amount of weight.

    If anyone could understand this it would be Floyd Mayweather, who is known as one of the very few in the sport who does not drain himself severely to gain an advatange entering a fight. Here are some screen shots of Floyd's notable fights and his official and in-ring weights:
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    Mayweather vs. Corrales: January 2001.
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    Mayweather vs. Ndou: November, 2003.
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    Mayweather vs. Judah: April 2006.
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    Mayweather vs. Hatton: December 2007.

    Mayweather hasn't allowed in-ring weights for his last few fights, but we can see his career growth has taken a longer period of time. The key difference, though, is that Mayweather never so severely drained weight as Pacquiao did. Mayweather always kept his official weight relatively close to his in-ring weight. Manny Pacquiao now does the same.

    Manny Pacquiao could very well be doing steroids, but as the chart and photographs above show, he has not undergone a radical body reformation over recent months and years. It is mainly his success and fame that has grown, while his actual in-ring weight has remained consistent.

    Will this convince people on either side? I doubt it, but just know that the reason for the supposed suspicion of Manny Pacquaio's steroid use is based around a faulty premise.
     
  2. NALLEGE

    NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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    Aug 26, 2008
    This shite does not prove that PAc isn't on anything lol... His blatant act of cowardice has been exposed now, and this won't help him or clear Pac...
     
  3. thesmokingm

    thesmokingm Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2009
    Christ, I was looking for this article. Thanks m8.
     
  4. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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  5. theHawtness

    theHawtness Active Member Full Member

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    Apr 2, 2007
    10/10- effort
    10/10- presentation
    :good

    this doping allegation is premised on crackhead snr's suspicion. an extremely reliable source if you ask the floydettes.
     
  6. theHawtness

    theHawtness Active Member Full Member

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    Apr 2, 2007
    go worship your oracle i.e. floyd sr. :hi:
     
  7. Hostility

    Hostility Member Full Member

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    Jan 28, 2009
    It doesn't, but it disproves the premise that the allegations were built on.

    How you could not see the intentions of the thread proves another thing though.
     
  8. ant

    ant Ride The Walrus Full Member

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    Jun 29, 2009
    it does disprove the base of the allegations but dosnt mean he dosnt take steroids steroids dont technically mean an increase in weight it all depends on how you train after you took them so the only way to prove it or not is drugs test which is why they want this to happen but steroid issues have been seen before so theres always accusations on any fighter doing well i remember when they claimed barrera was using steroids which i thought was ridiculous considering barrera isnt exactly the most ripped fighter out there lol
     
  9. Knives7

    Knives7 Boxing Addict banned

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    Jan 24, 2009
    Dumb-ass? YES. YOU DUMB ***LLEGE! SHUT THE **** UP! DUMB PIECE OF ****!
     
  10. Knives7

    Knives7 Boxing Addict banned

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    Jan 24, 2009
    Well, Pacquiao trains like an animal! He drains himself when he was in the lower weight classes, so during the fight night he blows up to more than 10 pounds in weight.
     
  11. ekkens

    ekkens Member Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2009
  12. enzo

    enzo Greatest Of All Time Full Member

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    Feb 6, 2006

    i gave you the link of this on the other thread. :good
     
  13. enzo

    enzo Greatest Of All Time Full Member

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    Feb 6, 2006
    Now *****s should show proof of pac taking steriods...
     
  14. Hostility

    Hostility Member Full Member

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    Jan 28, 2009
    If it throws the premise then whats the basis for the PED crap? So its ok to just start throwing baseless allegations now?
     
  15. keure

    keure Active Member Full Member

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    May 9, 2009
    then take the tests and dont avoid the biggest fight of the century