Is Pacquiao's resume as good as people make out

Sugar 88 · Nov 4, 2016

C.J. said: ↑

For me personally Manny Pacquaio's resume towers over Mayweathers. Everything Manny achieved he EARNED!! No one gave him anything. He starting fighting purely to survive & feed his family
Dont get me started about Slappy Calzaghe LOL
Click to expand...

Someone should give you a slap you buffoon. Your incessant nonsense really drags this site down sometimes.

nickpoppunk · Nov 4, 2016

its slightly overrated in some years. he capitalized when mayweather 'retired' , arum did a great job, it wasn't manny. however you cannot deny that pac has had some great fights in his career.

zulander · Nov 4, 2016

He will go down as a Legend. No one can criticise him and a lost to the best of this generation in one his last fights doesnt really damage his legacy that much.

If he had retired after KOing Hatton his list of wins and titles would still have been impressive. To beat one of Morrales and Barrera takes some doing. To beat both often in wars is exceptional for a come forward whirl wind.

Who has he ducked? no one obvious that for sure.

cslb · Nov 4, 2016

Moving up through all the weight classes that he did and still remaining relevant was a great achievement. However, let's not pretend that all his belts were won against the best fighters in those weight classes.

Rock0052 · Nov 4, 2016

His resume was firmly HOF material by the time he was done with 130.

Let's now discount everything 130 and under entirely. Pretend it never happened. If a fighter had turned pro at 135 and done exactly as Pac had from that weight on, that fighter would also be a lock for the HOF.

So, if having enough of a career to be a HOF lock twice is overrated, then his resume surely is.

thesmokingm · Nov 4, 2016

Madmink said: ↑

Or is it massively over rated.
Sure its got plenty of big names on there,but he fought them all at the right time,when they werent the fighter they once was,or had already had their soul taken by another fighter,never a fighter in their prime.
Calzaghe retired undefeated,with 20 odd defenses,yet is shouted down over his opposition,despite facing numerous world champions and former champions,i think its only fair that pac is judged objectively also
Click to expand...

Yea, it's totally fake, all smoke and mirrors. These baxing writers dksab.

Gil Gonzalez · Nov 4, 2016

Only a few years ago you could find posts like the OP's on this site in the dozens every day.

Pimp C · Nov 4, 2016

Gannicus said: ↑

His resume will look better as time goes by.

What he did is the same as someone who goes through a career winning lineal world championships like this:
debut 122, 126 first lineal title, skip 130, skip 135, 140, 147, 154, 160, 168, 175, cruiser at a 190 catchweight.

Just think about that.

There's 10 divisions from Light Flyweight (where Manny started) to Light Middleweight. Yes, it acquaints to the same above (body ratios).

To add to this, the reason why Pac's run is greater than listed above (122-190):
1. Pacquiao came from the lowest weight classes where you don't last long
2. Pacquiao beat a series of ATGs and future HOFs en route (and DOMINATED THEM mostly).
3. Pacquiao is an aggressive fighter - they do not rise the weights well at all. This is empirical fact. Take Wilfredo Gomez for a mere example.
4. Pacquiao has been in many wars so is not the same as he once was, especially considering he was a KO puncher before.
5. Pacquiao turned pro at 16 and lived and fought in poverty conditions until earning the lineal flyweight world championship.

Aggressive fighters are at their best when they're good sized for their weight, or very big for their weight.

When we look at Manny's H2H ability, we make the mistake of thinking of the welterweight version. His speed, power, athleticism, toughness, heart was an echelon better in the lower weight classes.
You see hypothetical matchups like 'Pacquiao vs Ray Leonard', 'Pacquiao vs Basilio' :huh

Does Pac's loss to Floyd mean anything MAJORLY significant? Absolutely not.
Here's why:

Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao was semi-shot for the following reasons:
NB: Semi-shot doesn't mean 'sucks'

1. Aggressive Style, being well over age 30.

2. The expiration dates of fighters spending the majority of their career in the lower weight classes is far quicker. Manny Pacquiao was from the Light Flyweight, Flyweight, Bantamweight, Featherweight divisions.

3. Manny Pacquiao was completely and utterly war torn. He fell from prime since 2010! He had been in so many wars...against ATG's and elite fighters. The Margarito fight took the prime out of Pacquiao. I can't think of any great fighter in the last 25 years who has been in wars against as many great fighters. He looked so lacklustre against Mosley and Marquez. It was consensus that he was fading, and that he had lost the 'killer instinct'.

4. Mayweather's prime weight was 130 (where he started). His speed, power etc. was greater in those weight classes, he was also younger then.
Pacquiao actually started at 106lbs (Light Flyweight). 6 weight Divisions from 106-130.
Pacquiao's speed, power, athleticism etc. was ECHELONS GREATER at the lower weights. Manny Pacquiao hasn't even knocked anyone out at welterweight since Cotto. Pac was Golovkin-esque in punching power before. So Floyd fought the softest possible Pac.

Mayweather is the naturally bigger man with the considerably bigger frame. I am DISGUSTED he couldn't knock little Pac out, shame on him. To make it worse, he only beat him on the basis of a couple of light jabs.

5. Pacquiao's killer instinct was already lost, but the KTFO6 by Marquez 3 YEARS PRIOR to the Mayweather fight, had eliminated all traces of killer instinct. He became so cautious. He was no longer the fighter who would take shots from bigger, HARD PUNCHERS like Cotto, Margarito, Morales, Barrera, Marquez and Hatton, to land his own. Pac at this stage of his career couldn't even walk over a featherfist in Mayweather.

6. Increasing emphasis on pure boxing in his career, especially after being KTFO6 by Marquez. This makes his game more predictable to 'boxers'. His crudeness was decreased, his unorthodox manner of aggression had wilted. KTFO6 made Roach turn a lot more towards pure boxing.
The very thing that Manny had when prime, was lost. His very threat was in his killer instinct, his ability to take punches to land his own, and his crudeness. All three had been diminished.

- This is actually a key point in such discussions.

7. Pacquiao had been more devoted to his career as a congressman, focussing on big boy careers, not mere boxing.

8. Pacquiao had a legitimate shoulder injury that Ellerbe was aware of. Pacquiao had a bad camp due to the injury, unable to take a legal painkiller, too. The OFFICIAL MEDICAL STATEMENT is that Manny Pacquiao had surgery for a torn rotator cuff, a 'significant tear'.

9. Mayweather was apparently so dehydrated that he needed IV's (which are known to be used in sports to mask PED use). Mayweather had the T/E ratio of a 128.5 year old man.

Mayweather is not worthy of much credit for this win over 'number 48'.

Besides, Duran the smaller framed man lost to Leonard, Hagler and Hearns. He's GREATER than them all, however.

Are we going to count it against Manny to have fought even fights vs his ultimate stylistic nightmare who has his number, four times, who just happens to be a legit ATG (Marquez)?

W Bradley x 3 (Most probably future HOF)
W Margarito (close to 170lbs on fight night, massive frame)
W Cotto (prime, future HOF)
W Hatton (borderline future HOF)
W Marquez x 2 (ATG)
W Morales (ATG, not prime but near prime)
W Barrera x 2 (ATG)
W Sasakul (ATG at weight class)
W Clottey
W Ledwaba (Pac was a late substitute)
W Larios

L Mayweather (Pac was very, very past prime and had a torn rotator cuff)
L Morales
L Marquez x 2 (I'm saying for the sake of it Marquez beat Manny in the third fight to make it seem obvious how even their rivalry was)
2xL vs Randoms when a malnourished kid. You have a problem? Well lets hold early losses greatly against Napoles and Monzon then.

How can a modern fighter become one of the GOATs? Be a Pacquiao.

The scariest part of this is, Pacquiao may face the Canelo-Khan winner for the Lineal Middleweight Championship, potentially winning world titles in 9 different weight classes (and with overall weight that encompasses 11 weight classes).

Pacquiao was MEANT TO BE knocked out left, right, and centre, forced into retirement by 140 - Hatton was meant to have him carried off in a stretcher. He defied logic like Duran, like Armstrong, like Langford.
Pacquiao eats super-sized meals to make 147 otherwise he's 140lbs! Pac should really be at LW and LWW at the moment.

Pac has the greatest story in boxing history, he's larger than boxing. Third world extreme poverty to Senator.
Max shares similar sentiments (starts at 2 mins 34 seconds)..

This content is protected

Click to expand...

If this makes you sleep better at night then so be it. But this is nothing more than the classic case of a bitter guy who still hasn't gotten over May 2nd 2015. To bad for you The Ring ESPN and even Pac's own trainer Roach said PBF is the best fighter of this era you posting this butthurt doesn't change that, now deal with it.

klion22 · Nov 4, 2016

Yes it is as good as people make it out to be.

PIPO23 · Nov 4, 2016

He is not done yet that's the scary thang..Both in the boxing realm and political arena..

Gannicus · Nov 4, 2016

Pimp C said: ↑

If this makes you sleep better at night then so be it. But this is nothing more than the classic case of a bitter guy who still hasn't gotten over May 2nd 2015. To bad for you The Ring ESPN and even Pac's own trainer Roach said PBF is the best fighter of this era you posting this butthurt doesn't change that, now deal with it.
Click to expand...

Like Kellerman, I knew Mayweather would win. I never had it a 50-50 fight after the awful Pac-Mosley performance. Roach has said more BS than anyone, only Abel Sanchez is his rival - Roach recently said Lomachenko isn't even a very good fighter. ESPN has awful Top 50 ATG list which proves TDKSAB and Ring is a joke. If you feel it makes me sleep better at night, why are you responding for? Why not let it 'be'? You clearly aren't comfortable sleeping at night. Semi-shot Pac doesn't cut it and you know it.

Madmink · Nov 4, 2016

titanic said: ↑

- 8 division champion
- From rags to Congressman and now SENATOR
- From rags to films, music and celebrity
- From rags to building hospitals and schools for the poor not to mention lots of cash donated to the needy and businesses that provided job.

Anyone who thinks that resume is over rated is nothing but a jealous person...
Click to expand...

I just think the term greatness is threw about too easily these days without the required substance

Madmink · Nov 4, 2016

Gannicus said: ↑

His resume will look better as time goes by.

What he did is the same as someone who goes through a career winning lineal world championships like this:
debut 122, 126 first lineal title, skip 130, skip 135, 140, 147, 154, 160, 168, 175, cruiser at a 190 catchweight.

Just think about that.

There's 10 divisions from Light Flyweight (where Manny started) to Light Middleweight. Yes, it acquaints to the same above (body ratios).

To add to this, the reason why Pac's run is greater than listed above (122-190):
1. Pacquiao came from the lowest weight classes where you don't last long
2. Pacquiao beat a series of ATGs and future HOFs en route (and DOMINATED THEM mostly).
3. Pacquiao is an aggressive fighter - they do not rise the weights well at all. This is empirical fact. Take Wilfredo Gomez for a mere example.
4. Pacquiao has been in many wars so is not the same as he once was, especially considering he was a KO puncher before.
5. Pacquiao turned pro at 16 and lived and fought in poverty conditions until earning the lineal flyweight world championship.

Aggressive fighters are at their best when they're good sized for their weight, or very big for their weight.

When we look at Manny's H2H ability, we make the mistake of thinking of the welterweight version. His speed, power, athleticism, toughness, heart was an echelon better in the lower weight classes.
You see hypothetical matchups like 'Pacquiao vs Ray Leonard', 'Pacquiao vs Basilio' :huh

Does Pac's loss to Floyd mean anything MAJORLY significant? Absolutely not.
Here's why:

Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao was semi-shot for the following reasons:
NB: Semi-shot doesn't mean 'sucks'

1. Aggressive Style, being well over age 30.

2. The expiration dates of fighters spending the majority of their career in the lower weight classes is far quicker. Manny Pacquiao was from the Light Flyweight, Flyweight, Bantamweight, Featherweight divisions.

3. Manny Pacquiao was completely and utterly war torn. He fell from prime since 2010! He had been in so many wars...against ATG's and elite fighters. The Margarito fight took the prime out of Pacquiao. I can't think of any great fighter in the last 25 years who has been in wars against as many great fighters. He looked so lacklustre against Mosley and Marquez. It was consensus that he was fading, and that he had lost the 'killer instinct'.

4. Mayweather's prime weight was 130 (where he started). His speed, power etc. was greater in those weight classes, he was also younger then.
Pacquiao actually started at 106lbs (Light Flyweight). 6 weight Divisions from 106-130.
Pacquiao's speed, power, athleticism etc. was ECHELONS GREATER at the lower weights. Manny Pacquiao hasn't even knocked anyone out at welterweight since Cotto. Pac was Golovkin-esque in punching power before. So Floyd fought the softest possible Pac.

Mayweather is the naturally bigger man with the considerably bigger frame. I am DISGUSTED he couldn't knock little Pac out, shame on him. To make it worse, he only beat him on the basis of a couple of light jabs.

5. Pacquiao's killer instinct was already lost, but the KTFO6 by Marquez 3 YEARS PRIOR to the Mayweather fight, had eliminated all traces of killer instinct. He became so cautious. He was no longer the fighter who would take shots from bigger, HARD PUNCHERS like Cotto, Margarito, Morales, Barrera, Marquez and Hatton, to land his own. Pac at this stage of his career couldn't even walk over a featherfist in Mayweather.

6. Increasing emphasis on pure boxing in his career, especially after being KTFO6 by Marquez. This makes his game more predictable to 'boxers'. His crudeness was decreased, his unorthodox manner of aggression had wilted. KTFO6 made Roach turn a lot more towards pure boxing.
The very thing that Manny had when prime, was lost. His very threat was in his killer instinct, his ability to take punches to land his own, and his crudeness. All three had been diminished.

- This is actually a key point in such discussions.

7. Pacquiao had been more devoted to his career as a congressman, focussing on big boy careers, not mere boxing.

8. Pacquiao had a legitimate shoulder injury that Ellerbe was aware of. Pacquiao had a bad camp due to the injury, unable to take a legal painkiller, too. The OFFICIAL MEDICAL STATEMENT is that Manny Pacquiao had surgery for a torn rotator cuff, a 'significant tear'.

9. Mayweather was apparently so dehydrated that he needed IV's (which are known to be used in sports to mask PED use). Mayweather had the T/E ratio of a 128.5 year old man.

Mayweather is not worthy of much credit for this win over 'number 48'.

Besides, Duran the smaller framed man lost to Leonard, Hagler and Hearns. He's GREATER than them all, however.

Are we going to count it against Manny to have fought even fights vs his ultimate stylistic nightmare who has his number, four times, who just happens to be a legit ATG (Marquez)?

W Bradley x 3 (Most probably future HOF)
W Margarito (close to 170lbs on fight night, massive frame)
W Cotto (prime, future HOF)
W Hatton (borderline future HOF)
W Marquez x 2 (ATG)
W Morales (ATG, not prime but near prime)
W Barrera x 2 (ATG)
W Sasakul (ATG at weight class)
W Clottey
W Ledwaba (Pac was a late substitute)
W Larios

L Mayweather (Pac was very, very past prime and had a torn rotator cuff)
L Morales
L Marquez x 2 (I'm saying for the sake of it Marquez beat Manny in the third fight to make it seem obvious how even their rivalry was)
2xL vs Randoms when a malnourished kid. You have a problem? Well lets hold early losses greatly against Napoles and Monzon then.

How can a modern fighter become one of the GOATs? Be a Pacquiao.

The scariest part of this is, Pacquiao may face the Canelo-Khan winner for the Lineal Middleweight Championship, potentially winning world titles in 9 different weight classes (and with overall weight that encompasses 11 weight classes).

Pacquiao was MEANT TO BE knocked out left, right, and centre, forced into retirement by 140 - Hatton was meant to have him carried off in a stretcher. He defied logic like Duran, like Armstrong, like Langford.
Pacquiao eats super-sized meals to make 147 otherwise he's 140lbs! Pac should really be at LW and LWW at the moment.

Pac has the greatest story in boxing history, he's larger than boxing. Third world extreme poverty to Senator.
Max shares similar sentiments (starts at 2 mins 34 seconds)..

This content is protected

Click to expand...

So your saying pac is a better boxer because of were he had to come from to achieve what he did.by that token no matter how much better a fighter with a better background,he could never be better because of upbringing ?

Ilesey · Nov 4, 2016

His resume is very good, solid wins, fought a multitude of opponents. Can't really fault him for it.

fistsof steel · Nov 4, 2016

One Of the Greats...no question...

Log in or Sign up

Is Pacquiao's resume as good as people make out

Sugar 88 Woke Moralist-In-Chief

nickpoppunk Unbelievable Bentekkers Full Member

zulander Boxing Addict Full Member

cslb Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

thesmokingm Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Gil Gonzalez Boxing Addict banned Full Member

Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

PIPO23 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

Madmink Well-Known Member Full Member

Madmink Well-Known Member Full Member

Ilesey ~ Full Member

fistsof steel Boxing Addict Full Member

Log in or Sign up

Forums

Is Pacquiao's resume as good as people make out

Sugar 88 Woke Moralist-In-Chief

nickpoppunk Unbelievable Bentekkers Full Member

zulander Boxing Addict Full Member

cslb Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

thesmokingm Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Gil Gonzalez Boxing Addict banned Full Member

Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

PIPO23 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

Madmink Well-Known Member Full Member

Madmink Well-Known Member Full Member

Ilesey ~ Full Member

fistsof steel Boxing Addict Full Member