is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Napoles had one of the greatest title reigns period IMO, specifcally regarding 147 it isn't even a question, really. Leonard didn't have a better title reign so much as he simply put some ridiculous opponents on his ledger, namely undefeated versions of Hearns and Benitez along with Duran. People actually criticize his 'reign' but he had already taken out the contenders before even getting a shot at a title: Mayweather, Shields, Ranzany, Gant, Price were all top rated guys. Chiaverini at 154 too.. In addition to Dave Green (what a left hook), Finch.. Went up and grabbed Kalule's 154 strap...

 

Yeah, Leonard over Napoles and Pac' for me, but all guys mentioned make my top 50. Definitely all greats.

Harada was greater than Pacquiao IMO but in the same bracket (31-40)

I'll take Mike Spinks, Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon over Pacquiao as well. Again, all in the same bracket.

I'll take Alexis Arguello and Luis Manuel Rodriguez over Napoles. All in the same bracket though (26-30)

 

Bar his few slip ups (which were generally cut related e.g. Backus & Morgan) I'd say yeah he was as dominant for sure. During his prime the majority of his performances were totally one sided.

He of course became less dominant as he neared the end of his welterweight run, but up until then he didn't have too many struggles with any of the guys he faced.

Perkins is one guy he apparently struggled against, but not having seen it or read enough about it, it's hard to read a lot into it. Perkins of course was a great fighter in his own right, and there's nothing shameful in struggling with him.

I'd say Napoles' performances against the likes of Cokes and Griffith were as good as Whitaker's against Nelson and Chavez.

 

His performances against Marcel, Buchanan and Fernandez, heck even the Viruet rematch, show that he could handle boxer types and then some.

He catches way more **** than he should because he ran into a few great boxer types when he was less than at his best in the latter part of his career (Leonard II, Benitez).

On the whole those post prime fights aren't reflective of Duran in his prime and how he dealt with boxer sorts.

Truth be told, I don't really value Duran's career past the first Leonard fight. He had some decent victories afterward, but it was a totally different fighter in there, nothing resembling the sort of fighter we saw in the 70's.

 

It's a big trade-off, isn't it? After Montreal, he was sitting at 72-1 (56) with wins over Ray Leonard, Ernesto Marcel, Ken Buchanon, Carlos Palomino, Esteban DeJesus (x2), Ray Lampkin, Edwin Viruet (x2) Hiroshi Kobayashi, a LW title reign that spanned six years and 12 defenses (11 by KO) and on top of the world for the most part. What would follow were a multitude of defeats and several embarrassing 'blemishes', although he took trinkets in two more divisions as a heavy underdog against Moore and Barkley, a thrashing of a toasted Cuevas at 154 and a competitive loss against Hagler.

 

Doo-Ran's 135 Reign

06/72: Ken Buchanon (LW Champ) W-TKO13
01/73: Jimmy Robertson (N/R) W-KO5
06/73: Hector Thompson (No. 6 LWW) W-TKO8
09/73: Guts Ishimatsu (N/R) W-TKO10
03/74: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW) W-KO11
12/74: Masataka Takayama (N/R) W-KO1
03/75: Ray Lampkin (No. 1 LW) W-KO14
12/75: Leoncio Ortiz (N/R) W-KO15
05/76: Lou Bizzarro (No. 5 LWW) W-KO14
10/76: Alvaro Rojas (N/R) W-KO1
01/77: Vilomar Fernandez (No. 4 LW) W-KO13
09/77: Edwin Viruet (No. 2 LW) W-UD15
01/78: Esteban DeJesus (No. 1 LW) W-TKO12

 

I think it's more fair to say Duran could look bad or disinterested against safety-first minimalist spoiling rather than movers or slick boxers of the more traditional kind.

Nearly everybody does though.Duran just faced a fair few of them including probably the ultimate example of minimalist spoiling in the Leonard rematch.

 

Even then though, I think his disinterest was largely attitudinal/motivational based, together with how good a shape he was in at the time.

Fernandez and Viruet are both safety first guys, but Duran beat them down when he perceived that they would be a threat to him.

In the first Viruet fight Duran got off to a good lead and then thought he'd just stroll in over the line, allowing Viruet to come back and toy with him a bit. In the rematch he was on him like for pretty much the whole 15 rounds.

His destruction of Fernandez to me was Duran at his absolute peak.

 

Now this I find fascinating. First, because I've only seen the first three rounds of it and second, you're probably the first person I've ever seen say that. Orriray made a poll not too long ago about Duran's best performance and it didn't make the cut out of 10 options.

 

Fernandez isn't that sexy an opponent to lay "peak" claims against, so it's perhaps not so surprising he isn't considering amongst Duran's best performances.

I think by this stage though Duran had weeded out some of his reckless movements of the Buchanan-Dejesus II period and had become more measured whilst keeping his instinctiveness and speed.

Shortly after this period he would vacate lightweight and lose a little bit in terms of speed.

People usually point out DeJesus III as the peak of Duran's powers, as he had refined his skill to a fine art by that stage, but I actually see that performance as a bit of a going through the motions for Duran.

DeJesus by that stage was no longer a real threat, he had declined markedy and if anything it appeared to me as if Duran took it easy on him (relatively speaking of course, he still beat him up of course).

That performance seemed to lack the fire of the Fernandez fight more or less.

WOuld love for someone to up the Fernandez-Duran fight to the tube. I'll say it's one of his most underrated performances. Most of the crowd that peddle the "Duran struggled with boxers" line probably overlook the performance. They'd do well to watch it and re-assess.

 

I thought it was on YouTube. Fernandez couldn't do a damn thing and he was a solid contender.

 

Oh, it's up there already buddy. Split into several three-round clips, however. I had intended to watch the entire bout but got interrupted by I don't remember what the hell now as it escapes me. Definitely something I'll give a look this weekend.

And yeah, I'm one of those DeJesus III guys.

 

Great :good