is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ushvinder, Oct 31, 2012.


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  1. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Happy viewings :good
     
    sweet_scientist, Nov 8, 2012
    sweet_scientist, Nov 8, 2012
    #616
  2. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    I'll chuck a load of Duran fights in single parts at the weekend lads. Got a fair bit waiting to be converted so I'll upload it when I get round to it :D
     
    Flea Man, Nov 8, 2012
    Flea Man, Nov 8, 2012
    #617
  3. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    :bowdown
     
    Hands of Iron, Nov 8, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Nov 8, 2012
    #618
  4. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    I've slipped a little lately. Need to have a big weekend of mass uploads ;)
     
    Flea Man, Nov 8, 2012
    Flea Man, Nov 8, 2012
    #619
  5. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Beating the undefeated, lineal hevyweight champion says otherwise IMO.
     
    Flea Man, Nov 8, 2012
    Flea Man, Nov 8, 2012
    #620
  6. ushvinder

    ushvinder Active Member Full Member

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    Yeah thats a great accomplishment, but spinks is still a head scratcher when you compare him to fighters from lower weight classes. Hes difficult to rank. Another issue with him is he had 2 years of his career in 78 and 79 that went to waist, if he beat some of the top contenders in 79 and cleaned out, his ranking would have been higher.
     
    ushvinder, Nov 9, 2012
    ushvinder, Nov 9, 2012
    #621
  7. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    Carlos Eleta's management style irks me. Not because it was really much different from any other, but because Duran was so great. Of course, it could've been the gold ol' WBA mandatories, but Duran certainly could've made title defenses against some more worthy opponents during his LW reign even though he beat the guys who mattered most. The division sort of fizzled past the top 3 or 4 at any one point in the '70s, but still... I think he could've beaten Cervantes at 140 too. Eleta was turned off after a particular fight. :verysad
     
    Hands of Iron, Nov 9, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Nov 9, 2012
    #622
  8. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    5'7. :verysad
     
    Hands of Iron, Nov 9, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Nov 9, 2012
    #623
  9. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    So who did he miss and how was it his fault considering he'd ha less than 10 pro' bouts?

    He beat the man who beat the man (Qawi) so what's the issue? In '80 he beat Murray Sutherland, Yaqui Lopez and Marvin Johnson. The latter two were two of the best contenders of the era you mention. Would he really have benefitted from having the corpses of Conteh and Saad on his resume? Maybe, but not like you're making out IMO.

    Spinks came a little too late for that great era but still beat the best of his. Okay, once he'd won the heavyweight title you can make criticisms of his level of oppo'. But not in the late 70s IMO, unless you've got unreasonable and unrealistic expectations.
     
    Flea Man, Nov 9, 2012
    Flea Man, Nov 9, 2012
    #624
  10. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    :lol:
     
    Hands of Iron, Nov 9, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Nov 9, 2012
    #625
  11. ushvinder

    ushvinder Active Member Full Member

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    Okay I dont really like criticising Michael Spinks because hes one of my favourites, but he's easy to criticize. First of all, his ranking in all time lists fluctuate like crazy. I have seen lists that have him in the 40's, I have seen some all time lists where he's not even in the top 100. So don't try and act like ranking spinks outside the top 50 all time is some huge outlier, it's not.

    With Spinks, the issue isnt whether he has good wins. He beat Larry Holmes, Qawi, Eddie Mustafa, Marvin and Old versions of yaqui/cooney. But after that his resume really lacks depth compared to other greats.

    Why he chose to sit out in 1978 and 1979 is not my concern, but that doesn't help him. Listing that he only had 10 pro fights is irrelevant, he was a seasoned amatuer. Sure he could have had a few more tune up fights in 1978, but by 1979 he really could have fought the cream crop of the division. Guys like Mathew Saad, Richie Kates, Lottie Mwale, John Conteh, Roodi Koopmans, Mike Rossman, Jerry Martin, James Scott, were all available to fight. These guys arent exactly scrubs. Yes his resume would have deeply benefitted from having SOME of these guys on his resume.

    Sugar Ray Leonard practically whiped out his division before he even faced wilfred benitez. If Leonard could fight all the guys he fought in 1978 and 1979, spinks could have too. As much as I dislike julio cesar chavez, he clearly has spinks beat in terms of depth, so does manny pacquiao.

    Other fighters are criticised for beating guys well past thier primes, why arent you acknowleding it with Spinks. Sure Larry Holmes and Marvin Johnson still may have been good, but Yaqui Lopez and Gerry Cooney are simply good name wins, these two were old and shot.
     
    ushvinder, Nov 9, 2012
    ushvinder, Nov 9, 2012
    #626
  12. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ya know... It's either an insult to Whitaker that this thread has even gone 46 pages.. when he's one of the most skillful boxers that has ever graced the real.. and certainly top 5 for me that we have video of.... OR it's a credit to Ush and his tireless and bias efforts that have kept it going when most wouldn't entertain it past 2 pages .
     
    KuRuPT, Nov 9, 2012
    KuRuPT, Nov 9, 2012
    #627
  13. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    Ushvinder has one hell of a chin.
     
    Hands of Iron, Nov 9, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Nov 9, 2012
    #628
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    He had to sit out that year he had a knee injury.

    I'm well aware Lopez was past his best. So were a lot of fighters that you're mentioning by the time '79 came around.

    Wassaja was a quality amateur and decent pro'. Spinks beat Sutherland x2, Davis (close, not all that a scalp either way and Mike looked horrid) but it's his very solid achievement that sees him rank so high for me. Exactly why George Foreman ranks highly on my HW list, an incredible feat can elevate a fighter the same as a couple of decent wins would've.

    Other than being in the same Olympic team there is no comparison to be made between Leonard & Spinks. That they had different career paths mean absolutely nothing to me.

    Yes, I rate Ray a good 15-20 places above Mike Spinks.
     
    Flea Man, Nov 9, 2012
    Flea Man, Nov 9, 2012
    #629
  15. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    Cool little feature from back in the day.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86t0tpUoCYg&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86t0tpUoCYg&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]
     
    Hands of Iron, Dec 19, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Dec 19, 2012
    #630
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