Is Pernell Whitaker the most complete Southpaw ever?

Good post. Other than they are both southpaws its a real "apples and oranges" comparision between the two.

 

:good

 

Marvin Hagler (IMO)
Complete Package of Speed Power, Agressivness, Chin & Boxing IQ.

 

Only taking issue with your statement that MH had many losses, agree with the rest.

Hagler had 3 losses and 2 draws in 67 pro fights, Draws to Vito (throw that one out, as most will agree a robery) and Seals which he avenged, Losses to Watts and Monroe he also avenged. If you go from his last true loss to Monroe in 76 to the Leonard fight, that's 11 years undefeated. 7 as Champ fighting all top contenders.

I also agree that Pea was great. I remember he went on a stretch were he didn't seem to lose a round in a fight.

IMHO they are the 2 best southpaws ever. You can argue that Pea was better defensively, which he was, but lacked power. But MH finished guys, so maybe a toss up as to who was best. Both were dominant for the most part, but also had their close and questionable wins/performances.

Guess it's take your pick, I'll go with MH due to the wars he was in, and the extra take the guy out in him kinda fighter he was in most instances.

Regardless they were the 2 best SP's I've seen.

 

I'd beg to differ on the last point. He was decidedly average in the boxing brain department. He lost to Leonard because he gave the first 4 rounds away boxing as a righty, made the Duran fight too close because he gave the smaller guy too much respect. I know that looks like nit picking but they were probably 2 out of the 4 or 5 biggest fights of his career.

 

I really don't think the Hagler-Duran fight was that close. I don't know what the judges were watching. Duran won like 4 rounds, maybe 5.

Hagler boxed him for much of the fight, but big deal. Hagler was a boxer-puncher, that's the type of fighter he was for most of his career, despite the revisionist history.

 

I Agree and disagree, and don't think it's nit picking, and I'm a big MH fan (notice the avatar). He fought dumb against Leonard, And also in Vito 1. I also agree he may have given Duran too much respect, and made it closer than it needed to be (watch the fight closely he outboxed Duran for the most part 10-5 on my card but). I do think MH can be questioned on his Tactics/decisions/adjustments at times. I do think Leonard and Sal Sanchez as examples, adjusted better in the ring than MH did.

On the other sdie of the coin, you can pretty much nit pick any fighter's tactics decisions, over their career. No Ones perfect.

 

And the Leonard fight?

He made the Duran fight a lot closer than he should have. I really rate Hagler but a great boxing IQ wasn't one of his qualities.

 

Skill-wise, I think Whitaker holds the edge, but the fact is Hagler had the power as well as the finesse to his game. Not as skilled a pure boxer as Whitaker nor as slick, but slick nonetheless, a better brawler(though Whitaker was just as skilled an inside fighter), and possessing the better power.

I agree with most sentiments. I rate Whitaker higher personally in a P4P ATG sense, and higher in a P4P H2H sense(even if that's a very flawed system), but the argument for Hagler being more complete overall is a fine one, though as a pure boxer Whitaker was even more versatile and crafty.

 

The Leonard fight wasn't the best version of Hagler. He was mostly reduced to a brawler. Having said that I give the boxing smarts in favor of Sweet Pea nonetheless.

 

My apologies. I was just going to write back to ThreadStealer about my mistake. I really thought he had more loses, but I was wrong. I am not going to throw out who I thought won the SRL fight due to opening up a new can of worms. The Duran fight was close as I remember it. I wouldn't mind watching it again to go over the scoring. I have many tapes of fights from back in the day, but as some of us do, we drink while we watch great fights. Meaning, I forgot to put the titles on the tapes:? .

 

Yeah, but he couldn't hang with modern guys like Andre Berto, just too primitive.

 

what does that have to do with anything?

 

Yea he was. That confuses me, why go out and blitz Hearns and not Duran?If anything he should have blitz Duran and gave tommy more respect because of his power.

 

I'm really shocked that you made that statement especially that Berto has yet to prove himself. Fans are all ready saying he is overrated and he is a HBO fighter. HBO always takes care of their fighters until they get hurt or knocked out like Michael Grant. I truly believe Whitaker would outclass Berto. Even though Whitaker was at his best at 135.