Is Ray Leonard an overrated technician?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Jul 24, 2017.


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  1. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    He's known as a technician. He has a reputation as one of the finest technical fighters to ever lace them up. But I think his physical attributes were an underrated source of his success and were the real key ingredient to Leonard's boxing. You look at his biggest fights and that's the conclusion I draw.

    Against Duran he had all the physical advantages. He was simply the bigger man. He was stronger, longer, faster, bigger. But Duran put on a technical masterpiece. Leonard was jabbed, he was caught with hooks, he reacted to Duran's feints. And on the inside Duran was a much more sophisticated fighter. We saw Duran showing the sweet science at it's finest on the inside. In contrast, Leonard's go to move there against him inside was just a crude flurry to the body with insane speed that got the crowd going crazy. Then in the rematch Leonard was just too fast and long for an out of shape, overfat Duran to do what he did in the first fight.

    In the Tommy Hearns fight it was Leonard who was being outboxed all night long. Finally in the later rounds Leonard realized that he couldn't outbox Hearns and I guess just didn't have the technical skills to win that way. So he threw caution to wind and went after Hearns and caught Hearns with lightning fast combos and then he finished Hearns.

    Even in the Hagler fight he didn't really show great technical skills. By that point Hagler was shot and slow as hell. Hagler was just so damn slow and his signature workrate and stamina wasn't really there as well. Leonard won that fight on activity and speed.

    I guess you could point to the Benitez fight as a fight where Leonard showed his technical abilities. But even in that fight Leonard had serious advantages in physical attributes.

    Once Leonard's physical gifts left he was badly beaten by Terry Norris.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
    tinman, Jul 24, 2017
    tinman, Jul 24, 2017
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  2. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Not overrated in my book
     
    robert ungurean, Jul 24, 2017
    robert ungurean, Jul 24, 2017
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  3. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    richdanahuff, Jul 24, 2017
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  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I disagree with a lot of this but I think I agree with your main point. Leonard was a speed and power athlete, first and foremost. Obviously a highly skilled boxer but he didn't really fight with the kind of precision and timing that I associate with true technicians. So I'm fine with calling him overrated as a technician, but I don't think he's overrated as an overall fighter.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 24, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 24, 2017
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  5. Neebur

    Neebur Active Member Full Member

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    What boxers would you class as true technicians ?
     
    Neebur, Jul 24, 2017
    Neebur, Jul 24, 2017
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  6. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He outboxed Wilfred Benitez for long stretches. So, he wasn't that overrated.

    Also, he boxed effectively against Duran in the final third of the bout, sweeping the final three rounds on my card to make the fight quite close. He boxed even more effectively in the rematch. He was able to use his technique to shift levels against Hearns, finding a way to get to the body and hurt him badly in rounds six and seven.

    He was definitely someone who relied on athletic talent, but he had the technical acumen to back it up.
     
    Drew101, Jul 24, 2017
    Drew101, Jul 24, 2017
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  7. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maybe he is an overrated technician but he's definitely an underrated fighter!
     
    Wass1985, Jul 24, 2017
    Wass1985, Jul 24, 2017
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  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Duran, Hearns and Hagler were great fighters and recognized as supreme technical boxers in their own right.

    I wouldn't read much into the Norris defeat.
     
    Unforgiven, Jul 24, 2017
    Unforgiven, Jul 24, 2017
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  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He had fine technique to go with his physical assets, but he wasn't on the level of Benitez and Duran as a technician. However, I can't remember seeing anyone say he was.
     
    Bokaj, Jul 25, 2017
    Bokaj, Jul 25, 2017
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  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Leonard's never been overstated as a technician. He's known as a boxer/puncher blessed with great speed and a superb all round game. If he wasn't so blindingly fast he probably would have further developed the technical nuances but i certainly wouldn't call him lacking.
     
    JohnThomas1, Jul 25, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Jul 25, 2017
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  11. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I cannot stand Leonard, but he's the best fighter I've seen in person since I've started watching the sport. His all around game is the best I've seen. And if anyone wants to state he was overrated as a technician, fine. But I felt he was better technically than Benitez who was a damn good one himself.
     
    Clinton, Jul 25, 2017
    Clinton, Jul 25, 2017
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  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I shouldn't have said "true" technicians, but I think of guys like Mayweather, Finito Lopez, Hopkins, JCC, McCallum, Kalambay, Canto, Davila, Toney, Andre Ward, Lomachenko, Pep, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 25, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 25, 2017
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  13. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Agreed. I never called him an overrated fighter. He's a pure ATG in the most absolute sense. But I still believe he's an athlete first and technician second.
     
    tinman, Jul 25, 2017
    tinman, Jul 25, 2017
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  14. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Alexis Arguello, Juan Manuel Marquez, Roberto Duran, Pernell Whitaker, etc.
     
    tinman, Jul 25, 2017
    tinman, Jul 25, 2017
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  15. Neebur

    Neebur Active Member Full Member

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    Some good names listed there. I'd add Duran, Benny Leonard, Harold Johnson and Jose Napoles to that list.
     
    Neebur, Jul 25, 2017
    Neebur, Jul 25, 2017
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