Is Riddick Bowe an all time great

Sure does. Bowe never beat a top tier legit HW.

 

An atg idiot.

 

He has one of the best HW victories of all time on his resume. A better individual win than Wlad, Lewis, Tyson, Holmes and Foreman have. Other than that it's a bit thin.

 

I guess Usyk isn't a legit heavyweight either then since he was a former middleweight and cruiserweight ? Based on your criteria it has to be the case

Holyfield is an ATG heavyweight because he has several top wins at heavyweight and became undisputed along with wins over former undisputed champions. The fact that he moved up makes him even more impressive pfp. Bowe isn't an ATG in my opinion but Bowes wins over Holyfield are impressive along with a win against top 10 Herbie Hide after Hide beat Bentt. It doesn't make sense to take credit from Bowe there

 

Probably not.

 

I agree with a large part of your take here Rummy, but I personally don’t have him in my top20 of all time.
There are some achievements that put him in the discussion, but constantly there is some weakening factor in play. Becoming undisputed, but not a single defence of that feat and being the one responsible for scattering the belts that Tyson collected. Being the first to have won the IBF, WBA, WBC and WBO belts in his career including the Ring belt, but back when the WBO was still minor.
Quite weak (almost Wilder level) defences of his remaining belts.
Beat Holyfield in the trilogy, but the first was before Holy's growth hormones kicked in, and the 3rd Holyfield obviously hadn't really recovered from his (probably ped related) heart condition. He did beat him though.
Then there were these numerous controversial fights he was involved in. Some his doing, others his opponents, but due to his status he always received the best possible resolution in his favor. Going 43-1 with the only loss coming to Evander, his record could have looked much different at the end of his career.

 

Probably not. He never fulfilled his possible potential for the many reasons already mentioned.

A classic case of him burning bright but short.

Would love to see him at his brightest with today's current crop though.

 

ATG? No

HOF? Yes

 

He's not an ATG as his prime was far too short. He's good on a H2H level but that was really Bowe from the first Holy fight. After that he just declined due to lack of discipline.

 

I don't think Fury could last a whole 12 rounds with the Bowe that beat Holy. I'd certainly bet against Ruiz, AJ...not entirely sure about Wilder. Wilder hit FAR harder than anyone else Bowe faced. I'd expect Bowe to outpoint him...but I wouldn't bet on it. I'm not sure if Bowe could have taken that right hand more than a couple of times flush. Just not sure.

That said, I consider Bowe to be above all those fighters as an ATG. Fury never beat anyone anywhere near as good as the Holy of Bowe I. No way.

 

Was he a great fighter? Sure.
Is he an ATG? No.

 

With how quickly he developed CTE, I'm thinking he was screwed from the start by genetics, even if he'd been able to stay focused and in shape. So, I don't think he ever really had the time to develop into an ATG.

 

Bowe never beat a top tier natural HW.

 

I think your on the right track here and its what I have thought. CTE set in for Bowe really early (similar to former US Heavyweight Olympian Nate Jones if I'm remembering this right). Whether this was genetics, Bowe taking too many heavy shots from a young age or (more than likely) a combo of the two I'm not 100% on.

As for ATG.....there was a short period where Bows was considered the best in the world, the wins over Holyfield were his legit great wins, followed by some other decent but not great wins. I think he also got lucky he was the gravy train A-Side a few times where he could have lost a decision (Tubbs), should of been out right DQd (Mathis Jr), arrested (Donald), or escaped defeat through his opponent being mentally unstable/weak (Golota).

He never fought a lot of guys that came through the 90s for reasons that were his or his management's fault and some more due to bad luck (Tyson prison, Mercer losing in an upset etc)

 

No not really. He could have been top 5 had he dedicated himself. I don't have him in my top 10. Huge waste of potential outside of a handful of noteworthy fights