Is Riddick Bowe an all time great

no

 

Not enough to be mentioned as an ATG. H2H, he'd be trouble for about anyone at his prime.

 

no. ATGs don´t get manhandled by foul Poles.

 

Wrong, in the Golota rematch he came in good shape and started to win the fight after a rough start and even dropped Golota. He was starting to beat Golota up until Golota started punching him in the nuts numerous times. Won by disqualification

 

golota was BEATING bowe in both fights before the vasectomy punches. hell, during the second fight, you could have made a case for the ref to have stopped the fight. it was late in the fight and there was a point that golota was using bowe's head like a speed bag while he was against the ropes. bowe's hands were down and the ropes were the only thing holding up bowe.
if you remember, bowe said the HE took golota for granted and that people would see him in his best condition in the next fight. if anything, the second fight WAS a worse beating.
BUT, golota just HAD to go nut hunting!

 

Watch the rematch again. Round 1 is a toss up, Golota drops Bowe in round 2 then dominates him. Bowe wins round 3, Bowe drops Golota in round 4 and dominates him before Golota resorts to lowblows and even has Bowe gasping for air with a huge nutshot and gets points taken off multiple times before the disqualification. Golota starts to dominate after but he was down on the cards by a point before fouling Bowe. The nutshots visibly took a lot out of Riddick imo

Theres this narrative that Bowe had no success against Golota even though in the first fight Bowe was grossly out of shape. Came in almost 15-20 pounds over his prime fighting weight. He did significantly better in the second fight coming in shape until Golota started nut hunting. I made a whole thread about it in classic. He didn't look the same offensively speaking compared to this early 90s self and it been a peak Bowe, he would've won it convincingly

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...dick-bowe-would-have-destroyed-golota.670447/

 

Round 1 wasn't a toss up, Bowe was thoroughly outboxed in that round.

Bowe wasn't in good shape for the rematch, he lost 50 pounds in 8 weeks. He lost too much weight too quickly, and was horribly weight drained and looked weak.

With or without the low blows in the 4th round, it wouldn't have altered the outcome. Bowe had no energy and couldn't fight a full 3 minutes.

Also I don't necessarily agree Bowe beats Golota easily in his prime, Bowe said himself Golota's jab threw him off his words not mine. And Bowe never really did beat a good fighter his own size.

Golota was as big as Bowe, had a better jab and outside game than Bowe. And nullified Bowes inside game, by rolling with shots on inside.

Golota would always give Bowe fits IMO, I mean hell a washed up Tyrell Biggs, Tony Tubbs, gave a prime Bowe issues on outside. You don't think a prime Golota would ?

And also let's be real Golota was supposed to be an easy fight for Bowe, it was a cherry pick gone wrong. And Bowe's resume in 90s has conveniently no punchers or big names, apart from Holyfield. Instead of fighting Mercer, Morrison, Witherspoon, Lewis, Foreman, Moorer, etc. He was fighting the likes of a washed up Dokes and journeyman Jesse Ferguson.

 

My bad i forgot i scored that clearly for Golota in my thread. Doesn't matter. Bowe was still ahead before Golota started fouling.

He was still in better shape than the first fight and his performance suggests so. He did look weak though. He was tired but even round 6 Bowe looked semi decent, compared to the first fight anyway.

He had no energy partly because Golota lowblowed him to the ground though him draining had a part to play to. It's not like Golota dominated round 4 before fouling, he was getting beat up. Even with a cup punches from a 240 pound man are going to be incredibly painful and throw you off your game and i observed that was the case. Golota literally threw combination punches to Bowes groin.

Not easily but he wins convincingly

Bowe in his prime had the better jab, Golota did everything else better at range. It would be a hard fight but peak Bowe would win be doing cleaner work on the inside. Bowe looked sloppy in both fights up close and at range and never looked like this even against fighters who rolled, slipped, and ducked combinations and jabs from Bowe in his prime like Golota did. It's clear as day this Bowe is not the same fighter that fought Hide, Coetzer, and Holyfield. Hell Bowe looked better against Tubbs, as controversial as the fight was, even though Tubbs was boxing incredibly well

 

Hide was ranked top 6 when Bowe demolished him.

 

Let's be real Hide was really better suited as a Cruiserweight, Bowe was twice the size of him. And funnily enough the much smaller Hide wobbled Bowe numerous times.

Where were the big names ? Bowe conveniently avoided big punchers in his career. And never tested himself against the best of the 90s apart from Holyfield, where he had huge advantages in Weight, Size, etc.

It's quite ironic isn't it that against Golota, the first real skilled Heavyweight his own size. He got battered in both fights.

 

not close to an all time great. I even questions his Hall of Fame credentials, but his ability would have gotten him far. He was a big strong guy, but he didn't have that right hand which sometimes is what adds that element of greatness since in my mind many guys can avoid a left hook, but not a right hand.

 

Bowe got hurt and preceeded to beat Hide down. You say Bowe avoided big punchers but it's Hide who Bowe said hit him the hardest. Hide was known for his power at heavyweight despide his size and had stopped Bentt for the heavyweight title. the same Bentt that put Tommy Morrison in a coma.

Holyfield 2x ATG wins, Hide, Gonzolaz was ranked and undefeated before Bowe mutalited him. Not a stacked resume which is part of the reason i don't consider him an ATG. He was good but wasted talent.

It's ironic how you yourself admitted Bowe wasn't "in shape" both fights, being fat in the first fight and drained in the second and its clear to everyone with a working set of eyes he was past his best regardless, but it seems at though because Golota was big and skilled, you think he batters any version of Bowe. Golota always gives him problems but IMO a peak Bowe beats him in a competitive fight based of of seeing a slightly better version of Bowe do decently better in the second fight compared to the first

 

Bowe was only ahead because Golota was an idiot and got 2 points deducted, the 2nd round was a 10-7 round it was so one sided with Golota landing over 70 punches. Which is an absurd amount of punches for any fighter to take especially a Heavyweight.

Bowe may of been in better shape technically, but he actually took punches alot worse in the 2nd fight. He was getting wobbled by any half decent power punch Golota landed and got floored twice. Where as the fatter Bowe actually reacted to punches better.

I mean it's your opinion and i'm not going to try and change your mind, but i don't think the low blows in 4th round would of altered the outcome. But it's pointless to go back and forth over that so were agree to disagree.

I don't agree Bowe had a better jab than Golota, the major issue in both of their meetings. Was that Golota out jabbed Bowe in both meetings, even Bowe said himself the jab bothered him. Bowe wasn't the kind of fighter that controlled a fight with his jab, he had a decent one but Golota kind of exposed that weakness in him, even though Bowe wasn't at his peak.

The issue i have with your last comment is that Holyfield, Coetzer, Hide, don't compare to Golota. Golota is a 6'4 240 pound big skilled Heavyweight, and that's my question to you. When did Bowe ever really prove he could beat a skilled big man ?

It may seem like i'm a Bowe hater, i'm actually not i actually enjoy his fights. But to me his resume outside of Holyfield fights is lacking, he didn't prove himself enough for me.

 

Bentt was a journeyman fighter who lucked out with a fluke win over Morrison, Hide stopping him isn't overly impressive. And outside of that Hide did nothing of note in the Heavyweight division, he was a blown up Cruiserweight yes he had decent power at Heavyweight, but he was literally half the size of Riddick Bowe and for me not a true Heavyweight.

Gonzalez was a good Amateur but his transition to the pro ranks didn't work, i guess you could compare him to Audley Harrison, although to Gonzalez's credit i think he was better pro than Harrison. But my point is two good Amateur fighters who didn't really make it as pro's, and i don't think Bowe should be given much credit for that win, Witherspoon fought Gonzalez right after Bowe and stopped him quicker than Bowe did.

Lastly i don't think Golota batters a prime Bowe, i just don't think Bowe beats him easily or convincingly. As i've said a few times Bowe didn't prove himself enough for me, and beating Coetzer, Hide, Gonzalez, doesn't prove to me he deals with a prime Golota "convincingly".

Bowe had issues with fighters on the outside, Tyrell Biggs who was washed up hit Bowe at will with the jab. Tubbs fought a smart defensive fight on the outside and Bowe could never really get to him. And even Holyfield fought on the outside and won their 2nd meeting.

 

That doesn't mean it's a 10-7 rounds. It's up to the scorer. I scored it 10-8, even without considering he recovered quick the next round

Bowe in his prime did but thats what i see. Bowe used it as a precise battering ram, in the Golota fight it had almost nothing on it. I do think Golota could outjab prime Bowe.

Holyfield and Hide could beat Golota. Maybe they dont compare size wise ? Yeah Golota was a big skilled guy. I don't see that as the main reason he was beating Bowe. No way was Bowe the same fighter. Even in spots when Bowe was giving Golota problems, landing jabs and good shots he looked quite sloppy, it's not just a case of perception.