Is Roberto Duran a top-10 All Time Great?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Dec 4, 2012.


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  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Jesus Christ you are an ignoramus.

    You have judged a fighter on what he did from the year 29 on...

    Do they perform brain transplants?
     
    Seamus, Dec 4, 2012
    Seamus, Dec 4, 2012
    #16
  2. Pacman2011

    Pacman2011 New Member Full Member

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    exactly what I feel:happy:good Very overrated!!
     
    Pacman2011, Dec 4, 2012
    Pacman2011, Dec 4, 2012
    #17
  3. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    Duran proved even at 154 or 160 he could go there with ATGs in their own weight class. ( He didn't beat them, and besides Hearns it was close enough)
    He's great because he didn't need to outsize/stay in his best weightclass to beat his opponents.
     
    dyna, Dec 5, 2012
    dyna, Dec 5, 2012
    #18
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    8-14 is my range for him.
     
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2012
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2012
    #19
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    So something like:

    Armstrong
    Robinson
    Langford
    Greb
    ----------------------
    Fitzsimmons
    ----------------------
    Charles
    Ali
    ----------------------
    Pep
    Benny Leanord
    Archie Moore
    Roberto Duran
    Gans
    Louis
    Walker
    --------------------------


    So seven locks (tiered, in no order within those tiers) and flesh out the ten with anyone named in the final tier which runs to #14.
     
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2012
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2012
    #20
  6. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Having Ali ahead of B. Leonard and Gans is just crazy.
     
    Senya13, Dec 5, 2012
    Senya13, Dec 5, 2012
    #21
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    As always, that depends on your criteria.

    I'd consider Ali as excellent a fighter as has existed at his weight. He also has the best resume at his weight. He has no prime losses, fought and bested most styles, has exceptional longevity.

    In short, he's #1 in the departments h2h, appearance on film, resume and arguably achievments in his weight class.

    I wouldn't claim all of this for either Gans or Leonard, so i'm very comfortable with Ali above them both. Having said that if I saw a list that had Gans at #8 and Ali at #10, I wouldn't remark upon it.
     
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2012
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2012
    #22
  8. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Compare their opposition and their performances against it, and Ali is light years behind both. Like I said, crazy thing even to put them in the same bracket, and to have Ali above either is inexcusable for anyone who has studied them at least a little.
     
    Senya13, Dec 5, 2012
    Senya13, Dec 5, 2012
    #23
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nonsense. Ali has Foreman (top 10) Liston (top 10) Frazier (top 10) and a beautiful raft of contenders bouted by in-betweeners like Norton and Patterson. He defeated all of these names in series.

    Benny and Gans beat 0 fighters between them who appear on the Classic Forum's ATG lightweight list, a list on which they both finished behind Duran. You can make a very lucid argument for Duran, Leonard and Gans all to be ranked above Ali, but the notion that two of them should be ranked above him beyond all question or debate is ludicrous.
     
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2012
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2012
    #24
  10. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    #13.
     
    the cobra, Dec 5, 2012
    the cobra, Dec 5, 2012
    #25
  11. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    I personally think Holyfield should be above Ali on the ATG rankings (based on achievements not h2h).

    As Holyfield got his achievements without being the bigger guy in 70% of his fights and don't forget his heart problems and could still give prime Lewis a good fight the second time.
     
    dyna, Dec 5, 2012
    dyna, Dec 5, 2012
    #26
  12. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Senya has underrated Ali for a good number of years on here.

    He once opined that a prime RJJ would beat a prime Ali.
    (Link unavailable as the said post was before the crash of '07).

    He also dismissed Foreman's win over Frazier on the grounds that Foreman didn't deserve that title shot, the result notwithstanding.

    He's almost on a par with Senor Pepe, or Redrooster vis-a-vis Leonard.




    As for the question, 5 would be too high, but 14 would be too low.
    So probably, yes.
     
    cuchulain, Dec 5, 2012
    cuchulain, Dec 5, 2012
    #27
  13. recycling

    recycling Active Member Full Member

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    Duran isn't even top 50. The game of the name is boxing and there isn't one fight where he isn't brawling
     
    recycling, Dec 5, 2012
    recycling, Dec 5, 2012
    #28
  14. duranimal

    duranimal Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How do you think he fought the mighty Hagler you useless thick ****:lol:
     
    duranimal, Dec 5, 2012
    duranimal, Dec 5, 2012
    #29
  15. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    He was boxing against Hearns while in his prime and at his prime weight while Hearns was old past it and far above his best weight and not even a top 100 fighter at the time.
    We all know he got his glass jaw exposed.:rofl:rofl:rofl
     
    dyna, Dec 5, 2012
    dyna, Dec 5, 2012
    #30
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