Is Roberto Duran the greatest boxer since Sugar Ray Robinson?

Yep, but like Ali he seemed a lot more sturdy as a bigger bloke....not an out-of-shaoe big bloke, but the Manny trained 'Lion' of his best years. As you say, more gung-ho and less stable, for example, it's hard to envision the best Lennox being outboxed by Bruno at any stage of Franks career.

Like Ali, his physical prime was not Lennox's prime....IMO :good

 

Agree on all points :good

 

Not that I ever laughed but I think you'll remember from ages ago that I've always said that when I first saw Gushiken I just kinda got a feeling I didn't have with any other fighter. I don't even really rate him that highly, so it's not even about me thinking he's a special fighter, I can just sit there and watch him continuously and it relaxes me, watching him step up and down the gears as he pleases, steadying the tempo, landing the straight left to the body-right hook upstairs combo which he set up with his circular movement as if it was sparring, and at will, finishing fighters off when he can be assed, it's as if it's theraputic for me. And it never occurs to me once that his opponents were nothing to shout about most of the time, I'm just so into it that it doesn't even bother me. Yoko Gushiken is the ****ing ****.

 

I do remember.........but I have a theory. He was a very talented and stylish fighter...........but it's the 'fro that makes it all add up :deal

 

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It's true, it's damn true :deal

 

01. Greb
02. Langford
03. Robinson
04. Charles
05. Armstrong
06. Duran

Yes, IMO he is.

Not that it counts for much, but he's probably the most entertaining fighter out of anybody in my Top 20 along with Leonard. Some of these guys don't even have film, and if they do it's mostly bad film or they don't look too great in it if I'm being honest with myself. But... they beat the greats of their day.

 

Which of your top 20 don't cut it in terms of aesthetic quality on film mate?

 

Duran was the greatest lightweight champion in boxing history!!!

 

That is a 'Great' list but do you really think that no fighter in the last 30 years (peak) would be on that list. Is it possible that you are leaning too much towards the glory days of old fighters. If your list correct then boxing is the only sport in existance where modern particpants would not appear in at ATG list.

 

Depends on definition of 'Great' If we are talking about all the tradional criteria, like Longevity, coming back from adversity etc etc, it would be hard to take anybody off that list. If we are really talking about who was a better fighter, taking everything into consideration, then I would have RJJ, PBF, Pernell Whitaker and probably Pac challenging to be on that list. And you argue a case for replacing pretty much anbybody on that list except SRR imo.

I'm not disputing their 'Greatness', if I had an ATG list Wille Pepp would probably be top 4, but he doesn't beat PBF at 130 imo.

 

op

 

First and foremost, boxing is not comparable to other sports such as running or cycling IMO.

I do give more precedence to older fighters, as they went through challenges that are more proof of a fighters abilities:

-More regular fighting schedules
-Best fight the best
-GENUINE World champions
-Deeper talent pool

Now, that is only a top ten. There are fighters from the last 30 years that crop up in my top 20, Ray Leonard (19) and Pernell Whittaker (20). With these two, I would say it is totally arguable for a higher ranking for them. In fact, between 6-30, there are probably arguments for any of the guys in there to be ranked the highest possible.

I would like to know which fighters from recent years achieved more/fought better opposition than the guys I listed.

It is a fair point, but one that is easily rebuked IMO. Also, NO ONE HAS A CORRECT LIST, it is all subjective based on personal preference as to what entails a 'great' fighter.

Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, Mike Spinks, Manny Pacqiuao, Alexis Arguello, Marvin Hagler and Tommy Hearns all achieved big success (or were feasibly still around their 'prime' at this point) from 1980 onwards and all appear in my top 50. I'm certainly not subconsciously leaning towards the older fighters, and being in my early 20s I have no inherant bias towards the old timers either.

 

Floyd is nowhere near the top 50. And Pep was a career feather, he did fight some bigger guys but H2H against other era's is pretty low on my personal criteria, I go for what the guys actually did. Considering Floyd also had the benefit of 24 hour rehydration periods he would clearly be the bigger man than Pep as well.

In terms of styles make fights, if we make Pep a litle bit naturally bigger, he could be a potentially dangerous matchup for Floyd. He'll make Mayweather lead a lot, and was just as impervious to assaults as Floyd (far more proven)

Floyd really doesn't bring anything new to the table. He also has a pretty low workrate, and bad hands. In most other era's, with more regular fighting against the best and smaller gloves, he would have a far less aesthetically pleasing record. Again, I'm not taking this into my personal criteria when ranking Floyd, but in terms of ring record, his doesn't match up to many of the 'greats'.

H2H, Roy Jones is probably the best fighter I've ever seen. But a poor tenure at 175 (dominance aside, poor opposition after the second Griffin fight) and less success in his later years lets him down. There's nothing wrong with it, just that other fighters DID overcome those sort of adversities and deserve credit for it.

The sport, technically at least, has regressed in recent years so I'm not certain that the likes of Floyd are more technically astute than other fighters of the past, for example, Kid Chocolate and George Benton did the same things he was doing many years ago, it's nothing new.

Also, you think you could 'argue a case for replacing pretty much anbybody on that list except SRR' when there's Ezzard Charles, Barney Ross, Roberto Duran, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong on there. That simply isn't the case. Especially when you're comparing them to Floyd, Jones and Pac'. Even in terms of skillset, it's not up for debate.