Is Roberto Duran the greatest boxer since Sugar Ray Robinson?

Leonard too sharp and varied for any version of Benitez IMO.

 

No, Floyd Mayweather JR is!

- Clueless ****ing idiot.

I hope nobody comes out with this ****...

 

I think Hearns would have his hands full with a 1983 Leonard at 154 personally.

Regardless of the extra 7lbs, Leonard still had the better lungs and better legs, though Tommy obviously matured as he got into his mid-20's.

At 160 and above it's Tommy's fight to lose, as opposed to being a toss up with a few variables in each man's favour. That's not a slight on Leonard at all, who was more than capable himself at 160.... but for me I don't think he was quite there. Hearns could have been one of the best ever if he hadn't run into a white hot Hagler in 1985.

Says it all when you consider that a decade after the first Leonard fight Hearns moved up to 175 and stood Virgil Hill on his head.

I'm not sure Leonard ever really gets the credit he deserves for that win, for me he gets too much for the 2nd Duran fight.... it was pretty close until Duran bitched out.

 

Doing scorecard again for Ali-Norton II now :good

 

Round 1 - Ali. Good jab and a good hook landed by dancing Ali. Good jab and hook landed by Norton. Ali makes Norton miss with his wildest lunches and keeps the jab flicking out.
Round 2 - Ali. Dancing continues for Ali to start round. Looks good, keeping Norton honest on the outside with a stinging looking jab. Norton does his best to bull his way in. Ali deals with it. Hooker-cut to the body landed by Norton - his only real effective blow landed. Another good Ali round.
Round 3 - Ali/can be argued Even. More dancing and jabbing. Norton gets some success jabbing back now. Still continues to just follow Ali around the ring most of the time. Good combination landed by Ali, met with one back from Norton. Good right hand landed by Ali. In last minute of round the pattern continues, with Norton stalking, landing the occasional jab. Ali lands a good hard right hand near end. Another Ali round for me - closer though
Round 4 - Ali. Good left hook landed by Ali. Norton the aggressor. Being held at bay with the jab for the most part though. Norton's attempted body attack is landing on the elbows and gloves of Ali. Norton seemed bit buzzed at roughly 2 min mark in round. Nice onetwo landed by Ali in last ten seconds. Stronger round for Ali.
Round 5 - Even. Norton lands a good left. Ali looks really good dancing in this fight. Better than I remember. Lovely outfighting example. Norton is working a bit harder this round. Ali picks it up in last minute, as does Norton. Good right to thebody by Norton. Ali landing a couple nice left hooks. Even round.
Round 6 - Ali. Norton pressing the action. Not many punches landed. Jabs exchanged. Norton gets Ali against ropes for a period and lands a few hooks. Ali lands some good lead rights. Ken seems a bit discouraged from charging in after short exchange. Good round.
Round 7 - Norton. Norton gets Ali against ropes for extended period for first time in fight. Has Ali holding on after some solid blows. Ali fires back for a time with some nice combos, but Ken puts Ali against the ropes again with a wonderful right hand. Big round for Ken.
Round 8 - Even. Ali goes back to dancing and gets a few nice jabs in. Nice short left hook landed when Norton pushes him to the ropes. First half for Ali. Norton land a nice jab to a nice left-right by Ali. Ali is tying up Norton well when he gets close. Good lead right by Ali. Nice hook sends Ali to ropes by Norton. Best punch of round, but Ali lands more. Close round.
Round 9 - Norton. Jabs exchanged to begin round. Slowed pace after frentic previous couple of rounds. Good left right by Norton. Ali doing work with jab. Nice jab snaps back Ali's head. Ali lands 2 good right hands. Trading for last 40 seconds or so. Good round. Norton gets best of it even though he seemed more hurt at points.
Round 10 - Even. Dancing. Jab contest for first minute. Ali winning. Norton has no answer for the movement. Left hook landed by Norton with Ali against ropes. Close round.
Round 11 - Norton. Norton pounds away on Ali against the ropes for much of the round. Visibly tired round for Muhammad. Small comeback in last minute with some light hooks landed by Ali. Norton round.
Round 12 - Ali. Good short burst of punches by Ali. Exhausted but dancing. Making Norton miss with most of his wild swings. The dancing is working for Ali. Norton looks really tired and is unable to capatilise fully when he gets Ali in a corner. Lovely right hand landed by Ali. Better fight than I remembered. Not bad for an Ali-Norton anyway!

6-3-3 for Ali. Won at least 6 rounds. Couple of the even rounds can be argued for Norton I'm sure, but Ali won at least 6 of the rounds. Close but clear victory over Norton with Ali looking good at points.

 

But who had the momentum? I love both fighters but that fight was only going one way....Leonards.

 

yeah, same

 

Maybe that's because he was a Lightweight 12-15 years into a career spanning 70-80 fights taking on the best Welters and Middles in the world?

 

If not for the pointless stoppage, Leonard would've won that fight by around 9 points in my book. Not close. He was simply better than Benitez.

 

On another note, Leonard beats Hearns prime for prime a good 8/10 over 15. I think he'd have won a rematch earlier had it taken place at the right time, rather than when both were clearly on the slide.

 

It was close because Duran's an ATG fighter and had the tools to cause Ray problems. But consider that Duran took a lead first time because Ray obliged him in a brawl (which was a close fight too), and that by the end Ray was beating his ass around the ring.

What Ray did second time round was frustrate Duran, knowing he'd be able to get to him late on. That was going to end badly for Duran with a wide points loss.

Also, the whole training thing is bull****. Duran looked fine, certainly good enough to be competitive as long as it lasted. He never looked slow or off-balance.

It's a great win. Not as good as the Hearns win, since Hearns had huge stylistic and physical advantages over Ray. His ability to adapt and become the puncher in the fight says a lot about Ray's greatness.