Is Rocky Marciano the Greatest H2H fighter of All Time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Oct 29, 2014.


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  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Nobody is invincible. But neither is any all time great -in his prime- going to be blown away easily by anyone. They get beat sure. But nobody is going to wipe the floor with any top 5 heavyweight champions at their best. At their best they will allways be hard to beat.

    I never would defend Marciano if people just said they thought he would lose a tough fight. It's this obsession that he he gets obliterated that needs challenging.
     
    choklab, Oct 30, 2014
    choklab, Oct 30, 2014
    #16
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It doesn't make them wrong either ,and in some cases they have the significant advantage of having seen those men live ,in the flesh, not as a jerky ghost on a flickering screen on film being ran out of its correct speed.
     
    mcvey, Oct 30, 2014
    mcvey, Oct 30, 2014
    #17
  3. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Only in the eyes of a Rocky****Jocky my friend.

    All joking aside, i do sometimes wonder if the few who pick him to win every single fantasy fight have the faintest idea about anything boxing related.
    The worse argument they put forth is how much heart he had.
    It is all very well being that fit and having that much heart but it means **** all if you are being bounced around the ring by a prime Foreman, Tyson, Lewis etc.

    I used to spar a lot in my younger days and i could hold my own against my own weight but put me in with someone 30lbs+ heavier and 6'' taller and it became very painful, very quickly and not to mention a **** more tiring.

    In a way its quite sad as those few will go to their graves refusing to accept he may just have had his arse handed to him by more than a just a few Heavyweights but let them carry on thinking that as no-one is going to change their minds outside of inventing a time machine.
     
    BlackCloud, Oct 30, 2014
    BlackCloud, Oct 30, 2014
    #18
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Pound-for-pound head-to-head, he's certainly up there.
    How many fighters 188 or under would beat him at his absolute best ?
    I think there's only four or five men in that weight category who even stand a realistic chance.
     
    Unforgiven, Oct 30, 2014
    Unforgiven, Oct 30, 2014
    #19
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree. At around 190lbs, there are probably very few guys you could make a clear favourite over him, maybe none, and perhaps only one or two you would pick.
     
    McGrain, Oct 30, 2014
    McGrain, Oct 30, 2014
    #20
  6. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Is this troll thread being started because Marciano is being picked over James "Tokyo Buster, Rocky Lives! ME GODZILLA, YOU NOT!" Douglas?

    Well I'm sorry to disappoint you, I'm picking Louis as my H2H GOAT at heavyweight.
     
    The Mongoose, Oct 30, 2014
    The Mongoose, Oct 30, 2014
    #21
  7. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Nah, RJJ is.
     
    Brixton Bomber, Oct 30, 2014
    Brixton Bomber, Oct 30, 2014
    #22
  8. CrossedLine

    CrossedLine Active Member Full Member

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    Ya'll musta forgot
     
    CrossedLine, Oct 30, 2014
    CrossedLine, Oct 30, 2014
    #23
  9. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    What's your excuse tonight Roy?

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN6042XXKME[/url]
     
    The Mongoose, Oct 30, 2014
    The Mongoose, Oct 30, 2014
    #24
  10. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Sure, whatever.
     
    OvidsExile, Oct 30, 2014
    OvidsExile, Oct 30, 2014
    #25
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Point well taken. Rocky would lie down for no one. He had championship heart and iron will. However blowouts do happen at the highest level…

    Louis-Schmeling II
    Liston-Patterson I & II
    Foreman-Frazier
    Smith-Witherspoon
    Tyson-Spinks
    Sanders-Waldo

    It does happen.

    I think the greatest obstacle to imagining Rocky victorious in the modern era is that he is a physical and stylistic dinosaur. The division has been populated by much larger athletes, almost top to bottom, and not just unskilled farm boys or bouncers but guys who have amateur pedigree and professional careers. To this reality, we usually get two deflecting responses:

    1) Marciano would be 6-2 and 220 today. This is just ludicrous. If you need further explanation I don't even know where to start.

    2) Marciano beat Johnny Shkor. A clumsy deflection that conveniently ignores the "elite" part of the "modern-sized elite heavyweight"… Johnny Shkor wasn't exactly Hasim Rahman or Ibeabuchi… let alone Bowe or Waldo. Again, if this needs to be explained in depth, there isn't a lot of hope.

    All the above recognized, there have been smaller of stature heavyweights to grab the brass ring fairly recently… Tyson and Byrd come to mind. However, stylistically there have been no come-forward plodding power-punchers with slow hands and slower feet of these dimensions. It's a physical/stylistic combo that just doesn't work in a division that has fundamentally changed.
     
    Seamus, Oct 30, 2014
    Seamus, Oct 30, 2014
    #26
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You said it!:good
     
    mcvey, Oct 30, 2014
    mcvey, Oct 30, 2014
    #27
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Emmanuel Steward a pretty canny judge of heavyweights, refused to put Rocky in a top ten list.
    His reasoning was ,he was too small ,too short ,had an abnormally short reach, poor balance,and cut too easily,to have a chance with today's super heavyweights.
    Plus he said his competition wasn't too special being made up of men slightly past their best.
     
    mcvey, Oct 30, 2014
    mcvey, Oct 30, 2014
    #28
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    And what would Manny know about modern heavies?
     
    Seamus, Oct 30, 2014
    Seamus, Oct 30, 2014
    #29
  15. nikrj

    nikrj Active Member Full Member

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    lol
    Well noticed. Tokyo Douglas is now the best of all time... :lol:
     
    nikrj, Oct 30, 2014
    nikrj, Oct 30, 2014
    #30
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