Is Roy Jones the hardest fighter of the modern era to properly appraise?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jan 1, 2008.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think so.

    1 - He may be the most natural gifted boxer ever to be filmed.

    2 - He is worshipped by even some quality posters, who revere him as a God!

    3 - The "Roy Jones Chin" question is still the hub of any debates about him. It confuses things.

    4 - He may have a weak chin for an ATG (and does in my view), which acts as a strange counterpoint to 1.

    5 - There is a huge gulf in terms of his talent and the talent of the men he beat

    6 - He has that win at HW, an incredible acheivment, which acts as a counterpoint to 5.
     
  2. Still~style

    Still~style Active Member Full Member

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    meh. you can always downplay someones career. jones dodged like most of the current champs (ehm pbf). thats why its nice to see champs who seem to want to fight the best, and prove their dominance rather than maintain it (pacqiou).
     
  3. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Who are you referring to in #2?
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    See the kind of thing that can happen, if I wasn't to classy to touch that line ;)
     
  5. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    HArdest is McCallum. How do you discount his dominance..beating Jackson, Curry, Cervantes, Graham, Kalambay.

    Unbelievable Technician, Tactician and perhaps the greatest body puncher there is. Great great beard as well

    Prime Toney had a hard time against him as a senior citizen. Prime RJJ couldnt do **** aginst him either.

    I say he beat both in his prime..and yet..who thinks of Mccallum as an ATG??
    You mention him next to RJJ and people laugh..

    Now thats one dude thats hard to appraise
     
  6. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    McCallum never beat Cervantes.
     
  7. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    Sorry to deviate from the point. Rjj aint hard to appraise. You look up the word Great and you'll see his name next to it
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But these guys you mentioned aren't being compared to Charles, Moore and Langford - Roy Jones is (rightly so). So he must be held up to a higher standard, that is obvious.

    I'm not neccesarily criticising it for him here, I'm just saying, it makes things more difficult. I mean, Ezzard Charles fought all the great fighters of his day, all of them - so we know how he would do versus the very best fighters of different types. Not the case with Jones. So it makes things more difficult in terms of appraising him. Do you agree?
     
  9. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    Mofo!!! :twisted: glad your back ...
    this is what I get from not going to boxrec..swap Mccrory for him
     
  10. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jones has a better resume than Pacquiao, so I don't understand your point. Pacquiao has beating 2 ATG to Jones 3 ATG, and take away those wins for each and Jones has beaten more champions and had less tuneups. Sure people love to say Jones fought public servants....but there are only two of those on his resume, and one them is a champion (Lineal at that).
     
  11. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Question before I answer. When did boxing become more of a business than a sport in your estimation? Or anyone's.....it happened in the 90's, just hard to pinpoint when.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If there was a man that made it happen, it was Don King. Arguably, it didn't turn full circle until the Tyson comeback...
     
  13. Still~style

    Still~style Active Member Full Member

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    Shouldn't you be taping mirrors to your shoes and walking through public areas...

    my point is that since it is all subjective the whole idea of priasing a fighter isn't arguable.

    ....and come on. roy jones's late career?
     
  14. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Every fighter from that point on IMO is hard to rank. All have been subject to an entirely different sport than even the fighters in the 80's. Jones, Hopkins, Mayweather, etc. With all the money and politics involved, virtually no one has fought most of the great fighters in and around their weight classes. I would love to rank them entirely seperate....as it is, I don't like comparing pre 1980 era fighters fight post 1980 ones.

    The ONLY fighter who fought a great number of great fighters is De La Hoya. And he gets criticized for it because he lost to a few of them (fought closely with all of them). Most fighters would have lost a few if they fought that caliber of fighter all the time.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It will be very difficult for us to have a discussion then, because I just don't see this difference. I think that Jones is a special and difficult case, but if you are saying - for example - that Cotto is better than Robinson, or Chagaev is better than Louis, we have to part ways.

    Got fighters though, Chagaev.

    Cotto may just be great. But drop him in with the Black Murderer's Row from the 40's? I would bet on him getting murdered, you know?

    Having said that, i'm not a guy who tries to say that the old school fighters were better...I really see parity between the greats from the past and the greats of now. A great fighter is a great fighter to me.