Is Roy Jones the hardest fighter of the modern era to properly appraise?

Definitely agree on McCallum. Even Jones himself commented later that he learned something that night.

As for the Roy issue, I don't find him difficult to appraise at all, at least no more so than it would be for any fighter of today's era getting compared to the older greats.

Jones has big wins, a host of solid wins, no controversial wins (maybe Tarver I, but he was faded by then), and in many cases was laughably superior to his opponent. The chin issue to me really isn't there, based on how well he took punishment for most of his career. The first Tarver fight is a good call. He gets pounded against the ropes by a pretty good puncher.

No one would call him a Hagler, but I think the china chin and garbageman stuff persists because it's about all you can knock on the guy.

For me, evaluating the career of a Sven Ottke is much more difficult. Ottke actually was a good -- if boring -- fighter with some nice wins, and obviously excellent longevity. On the other hand, he got every close call and apparently (I've never seen it) was the beneficiary of a corrupt referee in the Reid fight. Not to hijack the thread, but to me he's a lot tougher than Jones.

 

you think neither Solis, Larios, Velasquez or 3k Battery were top10 when Pac fought them?

 

By Ring? No. By some ABC org, maybe. But the ratings I used for Jones was Ring, so that is the context I assume you are asking. Solis and Larios were not in Pacquiao's weight class prior to fighting him or after fighting him. (Though Larios was a former champion, so you can argue that point, he had just lost by KO 2 weight classes below) So they were not ranked at his weight. Neither Velasquez nor 2k Battery were ranked by Ring either.

I will add that Solis was ranked in the weight class below. But if we are going to go by criteria such as that, then it changes the dynamic of the conversation.

 

where do you check these ring rankings?

 

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings

2k Battery and Velazquez have never been ranked by Ring to my knowledge. Larios was a champion 2 weight classes lower before being stopped in his fight prior to fighting Pacquiao, and then dropped down a weight class. And Solis was ranked this year in the weight class below Pacquiao, jumped up to fight him (viewed as a tune up) and then went right back down. None of the fighters were ranked in the weight class Pacquiao was in.

 

Great Post. Roy Jones Jr, IMO, was the greatest fighter to ever step into the ring. His abilities were simply unmatched. My only regret is that he didn't fight in an era where he had tough fights to really push him to his limits. Look at how he performed against Toney for example. He stepped his game up unto an entirely different level. Same vs Ruiz. I think Roy probably had more ability then we got to see, but most times could win by turning the match into a lopsided sparring session. Watch fights like against Hall for example. He almost had him out of there in the first, but then carried him round after round, content merely to make a spectacle out of it. His technical ability IMO is extremely under rated. Roy had such a solid grounding in boxing that he was able to adapt techniques to suit his natural abilities. He was still a very good technical fighter, despite the fact most people still try to measure him via conventional methods. Prime Roy Jones JR is virtually unbeatable by anyone from any era. He had speed, power, stamina and yes even CHIN. As he got older, and probably lazier it has certainly declined, but watch him earlier in his career and Roy could certainly take a punch.

 

thanks for the link

but u know even someone like say Calzaghe would not be ranked top10 at LHW if he fights Hopkins

back on topic, i think Hamed is one of the toughest fighters to appraise.

 

Fair point. But Calzaghe is a former champion with many defenses in the weight class below, as opposed to a fighter who has never had a title fight and never beaten a top 5 fighter like Solis was. And with Larios, he's a former champion, but it's hard to give praise for fighting a guy when he jumps two weight classes to fight you. Just my opinion. Like I said, I think Pacquiao has a great resume....but I don't think it's better than Jones. So I think it's odd to criticize Jones then praise Pacquiao.

 

I also think that Jones' resume is far better than PAcquiao's, but imo in your post you unjustly took away credit from pacquiao by stating that 4 for his last 8 fights were not top10 opponents, especially considering that if you go back 9 fights, his opponent was JMM, and if you go back 10, his opponent was MAB.

 

It certainly didn't. If the other poster had not brought up Pacquiao as being a better champion, or a more willing champion, than Jones, the discussion never takes place.

If he says Jones late career at LHW should be questioned when he fought 11 top 10 fighters or world champions at the weight out of the 14 fighters he faced, then I am certainly able to counter with Pacquiao fighting 4 unranked fighters in his last 8....add the two before it and it's 4 out of 10. Still a higher ratio than Jones. He shouldn't have made such a comparison without knowing the actual facts of the comparison. That was the point. You are choosing to look at only one side of it.

 

Can someone explain why people tned to have selective memory when speaking about Roy's chin? Please let me understand, why no one mentions him getting hit by Ruiz and completely forgets the first fight with Tarver where he TOOK all his shots without getting seriously hurt, especially in round 6?

 

Hill is closed to ATG he is a questionable ATG.. an argument can be made for him.

 

I think if someone can make an argument for Mosley and JMM, you can most likely make an argument for Hill and DM as well.