Is Roy Jones the P4P GOAT?

Most of it was not a surprise to me and did not contradict what I posted anyway. It was a combination of mostly water loss, then glycogen (sugar stored in muscles and in lever as opposed to losing actual muscle (atrophy)) loss and a slight fat loss. If 1 adds these 3 components together 1 can clearly see that Jones did not get himself closer to a medical hazard than any other participant in his sport whom cuts weight.

And you too ignore the fact that Tarver was actually more drained than Jones each and every time they fought.

Want to compare Jones' "drainness" to Tarver's and Toney's "drainness" by the time they fought him? Does not seem to me like you do.

Jones did nothing unusual and all your text applies to almost every fighter in the last 25 years or so: Alvarez, Chavez Jr, Ishida (and probably Kirkland too) Pavlik, Paul Williams , McClellan, Eubanks, Collins, Watson, Toney, Tarver, Dawson, Andries, Charles Williams, Iran Barkley, Hearns, Pacquiao, Morales, Donaire, Marquez, Sohla Saenghom, Espinosa, Raul Perez and plenty more.

Also Arguello and Lionel Rose from the deeper past.

Each one of these fighters and many others were serially more drained than Jones ever was @ 175.

 

I think Roy Jones cracks the top 10 light heavyweight list, if even only at the bottom of it

 

There is less than 1 pound of glycogen stored as a reserve in the liver and the muscles of adult man. The water and the fat I already covered above, with numbers, how much he could rid of without health problems. About a dozen of pounds are still left to get rid of.

 

Never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which fanboys will go to ignore the obvious signs of steroid abuse in their hero.

 

Roy Jones tested positive in 2000 for Androstenedione (Andro) his testerone was nearly six times over the normal amount. He claimed he got it from ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. The results were obscured by the state and the IBF.
That is the concrete evidence against Roy Jones. There is also a mile of circumstantial evidence of him being a steroid abuser. Most superstar boxers fight in commissioned states where testing is required. Look at the locations, easily accessible on boxrec, where Jones held numerous bouts of his after becoming a star of the sport. Many of his bouts are Chitlin circuit locales, beneath a fighter of his stature for sure, but used by Jones so that he would have the ability to juice up to the gills without hinderence.
There is also the eye test, especially his weight gain to fight at heavyweight where he added on 25 pounds of pure muscle without an increase of body fat. That is insane and too good to be true.
The evidence is there, it's just a matter of how much a person wishes to hold it against him and to diminish his achievements.

 

nice evidence :roll:. here are the facts: jones did test positive for andro which was legal over the counter and in suppplements in 2000 but ruled illegal by the ibf. the rest of what you wrote is pure crap. he worked with mackie shillstone for the ruiz fight and had to take a drug test in vegas after.

jones didn't gain 25 lbs of pure muscle. when he weighed in at light heavy, he was dehydrated. jones usually went into a fight around 185 the night of. he went into camp with shillstone at 192 and the night of the fight weighed 199. check out this vid around the 3:15 mark. jones talks about this and how they messed up his official weigh-in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrHydFIwfBo

your chitlin circuit comment contradicts itself. you're saying he fought in places with no drug testing so he could be "juiced up to the gills" but then you specifically call him out for his weight gain before the ruiz fight as evidence. that fight was in vegas. in 2003, they had steroid testing and jones was clean. yes, drug tests can be beat but why would jones have to stay away from places that test when he's already testing clean? that comment doesn't make sense.

 

First of all it was Jones' story that he tested positive for Androstenedione, nobody elses. The actual report makes it clear that the levels he tested positive for were so high that you would have had to have been taking MASSIVE amounts of Andro for your body to register that high. No, Jones was taking steroids. I know because I took the **** years ago and the recommended dosages were so low (even just taking the capsules) that you would have had to choke down a fistfull of them for them to do anything. Nevermind the lower incidental dose you would get it from by taking Ripped Fuel. For anyone ANYONE to have those amounts in their system they knew full well what they were doing and what they were taking and it wasnt Ripped Fuel.

Also, it was JOnes's story that they messed up the weigh in. But whatever, believe Jones, Ill believe my eyes and the actual test results. Im not stupid, ive been around steroid abusers before and when it looks too good to be true it is. Ive said it before and Ill say it again, you dont gain as much weight as Jones did over his career in a sport that burns so many calories and have it all be lean muscle as Jones was. Just doesnt happen. The human body doesnt work that way and all of the "advanced technology" in training wont change that.

Roys lowest weight was 153 in 1991 when he was 22 years old. 12 years later at 34 he weighed a ripped 199 against Ruiz. 46 pounds of solid muscle. Even if you want to pretend he rehydrated to 175 pounds back in 1991 thats still 24 pounds of lean solid muscle (never mind the lack of fat tissue which comes naturally as age progesses) and still retaining your athleticism etc. Eh, sorry, doesnt happen.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck.

Roid Jones Juicer should have been his name.

 

One capsule of ripped fuel contains about 100 mg of Androstenedione. Taking 50 mg of Andro can increase testosterone levels to ~180% of normal level. Usually 2 capsules are taken daily, but nobody prohibits you from taking more than 2, you do the math of how "massive" the amount has to be to be 6 times over normal level.

 

here's the story that reported roy tested for andro by kieran mulvaney.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2782402

jones never mentioned andro, just ripped fuel. hall tested positive for andro as well.

i don't understand your argument about roy's weight. roy said he weighed around 200 lbs for the ruiz fight. you're saying he's lying but that actually helps your argument. there's video footage they screwed up on the link i provided before.

you don't think a fighter could gain 24 lbs (of mostly muscle) over a 12 yr period? that's 2 lbs a year for a world class athlete. plus, there's this thing called growing. jimmy ellis must have cheated too. their weights are similar throughout their careers.

 

To be honest, I've never seen it stated explicitely that it was the andro test that Jones failed. The scan of the letter sent to Jones said "anabolic steroid", without clarifying what exactly he was tested positive for. There's no "anabolic steroid" test per se, you have to test for more exact things. And neither of the two interviews with the officials, which mentioned the level was 5 or 6 times higher than normal for Jones and 10 times higher than normal for Hall, mention what they tested for. Andro de jure and de facto wasn't an anabolic steroid since it doesn't lead to muscle growth (at least no research has shown this or strength increase as the result), which was part of the definition of anabolic steroid by the rules/laws.

 

andro is (and has been) listed as an anabolic steroid. look at the bottom of page 2. the mulvaney story was the one that said jones and hall tested positive for andro. athletes in other sports have tested positive for andro as well.

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/W...ed-list/2014/WADA-prohibited-list-2014-EN.pdf

 

Manny Pacquiao has only been suspected of using steroids – and the media has blown it so far out of proportion, some wonder if the baseless charges could actually be true. Back in 2000, Roy Jones really did test positive and admitted to using steroids, however the mainstream sports media barely touched that red-hot story, for mysterious reasons.

The Jones situation only came to light after his 2000 Indianapolis opponent Richard Hall inadvertantly revealed the fact in a 2003 interview with Braggingrightscorner.com’s Alladin Freeman. I picked up on the story, contacted Indiana State commissioner Jacob Hall, who unequivocally stated Jones did indeed test positive, but the blockbuster story never really broke big like you might have expected, compared to the Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Ben Johnson, Shane Mosley and Marion Jones controversies.

Here’s the original story which was posted at BoxingInsider.com in 2003. Note the double standard in how the media has avalanched on the Pacquiao-Mayweather war of words, yet virtually ignored the fact of Jones testing positive. (Don’t believe it? Google search Roy Jones and Steroids and see what you find.)

Roy Jones Did Test Positive, Steroids

By Scoop Malinowski (Story was originally posted in 2003.)

Richard Hall’s astonishing claims – that Roy Jones, possibly the greatest fighter in ring history – tested positive for steroids after their May 2000 fight, have now been confirmed today by Jacob Hall, the Commissioner of Indiana Boxing.

Here is our exclusive interview.

Boxinginsider.com: Did Roy Jones test positive after his fight against Richard Hall?

Jacob Hall: “Both of them did. Roy Jones tested positive for steroids. He was five or six times over an acceptable level. Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level. He didn’t mention that in his interview (the now infamous interview of July 18 with Bragging Rights Corner and Doghouse Boxing).

A letter was sent to both (Jones and Hall). The Indiana Boxing Commission followed up – I talked to Jones’ people and said we were going to declare the fight a no-contest, suspend and fine him. And at that time, Jones’ attorney Fred Levin and the Indiana Attorney General’s office got involved.

Indiana has no law on drug testing as probably the majority of the states in the U.S. do not. The drug testing company sent us the results. Most states that don’t have drug testing laws, the test results go back to the sanctioning bodies. I think most people are surprised at that. What do the sanctioning bodies do when they get positive test results? Suspend? Fine? They didn’t in this case. And there’s no way you’re going to know about it.

Through his attorney, Jones admitted he had been taking an over-the-counter product called Ripped Fuel. That’s not illegal but it is an anabolic steroid according to the IBF and other other sanctioning bodies.

So he did test positive. He did take Ripped Fuel.

Whether that’s what he took or not we don’t know, but he did test positive and admitted to taking a steroid.

The IBF chose to do nothing. They wanted a second test to be done. But why take a second test when he failed the first one and admitted to taking a steroid? That’s where it ended.

No action was taken. Nobody did anything.

We couldn’t take action (because there is no drug testing law in the state of Indiana) but what we agreed to was before his next two fights, Roy Jones would submit the results to more drug tests to Indiana. One fight was in Louisiana and those results were negative. And the other was in California, and those results were negative.

What surprised me about this is that the IBF chose not to do anything. And I have documents…what I’m saying, I can back-up. So I’m not concerned with that.

Roy Jones’ people were very cooperative and very easy to work with to reach a settlement. Also, I did tell Roy Jones that there are some amateur boxing clubs here in Indiana and he did send a check in the amount of $250 for the Indianapolis PAL.”

Boxinginsider.com: How many people have called you since the Richard Hall interview?

Jacob Hall: “Brad Jacobs, now an advisor for Jones, and a reporter from some paper in France, and that was it. Brad Jacobs called to verify if the facts were true about Roy failing the test. He wasn’t involved with Roy Jones back in 2000. He just wanted to know what the facts were, like you.”

Boxinginsider.com: Wow, that’s hard to believe – that only one media outlet from France has called you about this.

Jacob Hall: “All I saw on any of the websites was that Murad Muhammad said Roy Jones tested positive for take some (nasal decongestant). But that was innaccurate. This was not a nasal decongestant.”

Boxinginsider.com: Does the state of Nevada have a law on drug testing?

Jacob Hall: “Yes. Most states do not. Nevada does have drug testing. I think most people are surprised at that…they think all boxers are tested. For some time I’ve tried to get a law passed similar to Nevada but we haven’t got that done yet. If the sanctioning bodies choose not to take action, there isn’t a lot the state commissions can do. That’s why I’m in favor of a Federal Commission like the one Senator John McCain is proposing.”
—-

 

long count - that story has been posted about a million times on these boards. not sure how it's an argument about anything else i posted.

 

Uh, no. :-(

 

I did copy and paste this from another thread, not sure how to quote someone from one thread to another.

What is your argument? Roy Jones failed his drug test. He was fighting under the IBF rules and regulations and his test came back positive. He claims it was from Ripped Fuel an over the counter supplement, which at that time was legal to purchase but illegal to be used in a IBF sanctioned fight. Unfortunately, it is Roy Jones' responsibility as a pro athlete to know what he is ingesting into his body and what rules he is fighting under. I find the veracity of his version suspect but even still, for some reason or another his testerone was 6 times the norm and he failed.