Is Schmelling the most underrated HW?

The thread is is Schmeling is the most underrated all time heavyweight champion. Your position is decisive KO losses on his record do not matter and mine is that they do since they represent his ability and accomplishments. You are unigue in your system of gaging achievement. Discounting decisive losses is new to me. Of course I rate Charles body of accomplishments in gaging his all time heavyweight status. They are all the sum of their parts and the skills that made them vulnerable at light heavyweight can make them vulnerable against specific heavyweights as well.

You also discount the fact that he was getting spenked in front of the world in his biggest fight ever up to the point and lucked out to get the title in the first place. So what you say he won ? Funny.

You brought Lewis and Ali in comparisons ... your bad analogy ... in fact your whole questionable argument ... what exactly is your point anyway ? Where do you rate Schmeling all time ?

 

Are we to conclude that ali did not improve at all post-frazier? That he learned absolutely nothing? The first fight was no fluke but neither was the rematch.

On level of opponent frazier>schmelling, louis>ali.

The discrepancy is greater in max's favour against a prime undefeated man who would forge out a career solid enough to have him considered the greatest heavyweight in history.

 

That´s the point. Heavyweight. So, what happened here is to be discussed.

I discount the fact? Read again, I wrote that Sharkey was amongst the best when he is on and getting beaten by him is no shame. And the fight was over after 4 rounds, who knows how it would have unfolded later, four rounds are a bad indication of the skills of a fighter.

Reading comprehension isn´t your strong point, is it? Read again what I wrote. I did not compare Schmeling to Ali or Lewis. You call Schmeling inconsistent due to three losses in 10 years. I ask you if you think Ali and Lewis were although inconsistent since they lost similarly often in an about equally amount of time.

I posted where I rank Schmeling in this thread. Read it up.

 

ouch !!!

 

Frazier fought head to head with an arguably faded Ali for the distance and won a points victory.

Schmeling fought a prime Louis and knocked him out.

 

I fully agree with bodhi here, max as a lhw has zero bearing on max as a heavyweight.

I mean are we to rank spinks, moore and charles in the top ten heavyweights? How about greb, fitz, langford and walker?

Louis could have lost to twenty guys whilst weighing at middleweight an it would have no impact on his heavyweight legacy.

Should moore's losses at heavyweight detract from his lightheavyweight ranking?

Should fitz's losses to jeffries affect his middleweight ranking?

 

No need to get personal just because your weak argument is exposed. You believe that when rating a fighter selective recall is acceptable and I believe the sum of the entire body of the work is important ... you feel that a heavyweight champion that was stopped three times in the first part of his career should have it over looked since he may have been fighting at light heavy at the time while I feel the fact that he was able to be stopped three times as a light heavy says something significant about the skill set of the fighter .. it is what it is .. my reading comprehension is fine, your passages are just quite boring and silly ...

 

what do you think of these scenarios?

 

Absurd. A man gets stopped by light heavyweights and it has not impact on his rating as a heavyweight ? Why not only count heavyweights he fought on even years ?

 

do you treat the term "heavyweight" as a definition of a man or as a definition of a weightclass?

I think this is the crux of the matter here.

 

Hard to argue with your logic. Who wins between FOTC Ali and '36 Louis? The answer to this question pretty much solves the Frazier-Schmeling resume riddle IMO.

 

You could also argue that Frazier beat a near prime Ali while Schmeling beat an inexperienced Louis who had trained for the fight by playing golf. Max also got destroyed in the rematch.

I know many feel Louis was at his best against Baer, but Baer brought his face to get punched at. Despite Schmeling's loss to Baer, he was always going to be a more difficult opponent for Louis due to his cleverness.

 

This is a bit off topic but I'll just follow up on my previous post as I've decided the FOTC Ali-'36 Louis matchup really doesn't answer the resume question...

Joe Frazier beat the living crap out of Bob Foster, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Buster Mathis and George Chuvalo...not to mention coming back from 2 KDs to beat a prime Ringo and winning a decision against Machen. These guys were , at the very least, comparable to any of Schmelings opponents(excluding Joe Louis). My point here is that Schmeling's brutal KO victory over a prime Joe Louis, while obviously one of the greatest victory on the biggest stage in boxing history, is simply not enough to offset the overwhelming evidence in Frazier's favor. Please matchup any of the guys I've mentioned above against any of Schmelings opponents(except Louis obviously) and you'll see what I mean.

 

He doesnt crack my top ten ,but I believe him to be underated. If Braddock had honoured their contract Max would have become the first man to regain the heavyweight title ,imo.

 

Had he gotten the nod v sharkey and gotten the fight v braddock we could well be talking about top 15 material.