Is Shakur the best at 135 now?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BoxingIQ, Apr 8, 2023.


  1. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No disrespect as he's great defensively and underrated offensively, but if you think he's the mountaintop, you should hop on youtube and start studying more defensive fighters.

    No he's not the best LW yet, I would say going by the eye test he goes through potentially everyone except Haney and Loma. Could he beat them? Possibly, but I think they both deserve the benefit of the doubt. I'd personally lean towards him though, but he ain't the best until he gets that elite win and he ain't did that yet.
     
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  2. MagnificentMatt

    MagnificentMatt Beterbiev literally kills Plant and McCumby 2v1 Full Member

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    Him and Haney are ridiculously overrated.

    When Floyd was at lower weights, he was hurting and stopping top level fighters.

    Being able to get mean and truly hurt top level opponents is increasingly important as the level goes up and when the going gets rough - no matter how “scientific” Instagram pages and internet boxing “pundits” want to make it.

    Not saying these guys aren’t good, and maybe they will develop or show this ability… but pump the breaks, I see a lot of Floyd comparisons… he was WAY more impressive at a similar stage of his career, and wasn’t such a negative fighter.
     
  3. senpai

    senpai Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How can somebody be the best in the division, when he did not even fought top 5 of the division ?
     
  4. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Alright, sure people will call me a hater, because I am. I do not like Shakur Stevenson at all personally, I think he's a nasty piece of **** and a needlessly angry woman abusing mental midget. But I'll put this on the backburner for a bit and actually talk about his skill set and address whether or not he's the best at 135.

    Let's get this out of the way first, sometimes I stubbornly pick against guys I dislike and root against, even though I know I'll probably take an L. It is what it is. I can be an a-hole like that sometimes.:sisi1

    Is Shakur very skilled? Yes, obviously, his defense is always on point, his parrying and blocking abilities solid, his footwork is immaculate, controls range incredibly well, he's very fast, has a great jab and excellent reflexes. He beats most of his opponents with relative ease, barely losing a round in the process. Clearly it's going to take a top notch quality fighter to hand him his first L.

    However... how much of this success is rooting in him being a southpaw that most orthodox fighters usually struggle against and how much of this success is also rooted in incredibly smart matchmaking, dare I say cherry picking from his very smart handlers, including the very savvy and intelligent former manager Andre Ward and current trainer Kay Koroma? The answer is..... a hell of a lot. So much so, I can almost see them now perusing the resumes of ranked fighters, looking for weakness to exploit first, and then make the match second.


    Now... let's take a look shall we...

    Shuichiro Yoshino, is a bit of a skill less ploding caveman, who was being soundly outboxed by increasingly frail Nakatani and natural Super Featherweight Ito before his power and size got to them. He's also never fought a southpaw as a pro, tends to square up way too much, and his straight right isn't all that straight, more of a looping right he has to be in range to land. Easy pickings.

    Robson Conceicao, yes, he beat Valdez and didn't get credit for it, but I think Valdez sucks, especially an unroided version. Conceicao was also the recipient of a gift himself, Luis Coria dropped him very hard, so hard he barely made the count, and arguably did enough to win a decision. Now, let's take a look at his amateur record, 14 of his 23 losses came against... you guessed it, SOUTHPAWS. Although a fare amount of the remaining 9 could've been too, their stances were unlisted, and I know Lazaro Alvarez and Yasnier Toledo are southpaws without looking them up. Easy pickings.

    Oscar Valdez, dropped countless times and needlessly reckless. Already should've take an L to Conceicao. Was dropped by Ruben Tamayo a SOUTHPAW early in his career, and couldn't KO Tamayo. Avoided southpaws ever since. Most of his notable losses as an amateur come at the hands of Southpaws. Easy pickings.

    Jamel Herring, has three other losses as a pro. While Herring is a southpaw himself. There's a problem... he performs horribly against them. He was stopped by SOUTHPAW Denis Shafikov, struggled mightily against and lost a decision to Ladarius Miller, a SOUTHPAW. Then after Shakur beat him, he lost to ortodox fighter Jamaine Ortiz, who also happens to be a switch hitter who fought the match almost entirely as a SOUTHPAW. Many of his amatuer losses were to... southpaws. Easy pickings.

    Jeremiah Nakathila, a gangly awkward fighter with terrible footwork with no amateur career to speak of, who's feasted on mostly orthodox African cab drivers his entire career, and in his one away fight, lost wide on points to the really shitty glass jawed Evgeny Chuprakov. Easy pickings.

    Toka Kahn Clary, while yes, he's a southpaw, he's also a fighter who's never had a quality win, and in his two losses, which were against orthodox fighters, there's some wrinkles. Jhon Gemino momentarily switched to southpaw an KO'd him with a left. Kid Galahad also outpointed him, while as an orthodox, Galahad struggled, but the moment he switched to southpaw, because he's also a switch hitter, he won easily. Also a ton of losses as an amateur came at the hands of southpaws. Easy pickings.

    Felix Caraballo, a rudimentary plodder at best, had already soundly outboxed by Pedro Marquez Medina, went on to lose to three southpaws in a row, after Shakur, he took L's against Robeisy Ramirez and Raymond Ford, who also TKO'd him. Easy pickings.

    Joet Gonzalez, while a decent fighter, he tends to square up way to much, and is featherfisted, he'd also arguably got a gift against Rafael Rivera. Most of his losses as an amateur again, came at the hands of southpaws. Not easy pickings, but still quite a safe risk.

    Christopher Diaz, while also a quality fighter, he looked like an utterly perplexed lost puppy dog when he was in the ring with Masayuki Ito, whose only tools he had to his advantage is a solid jab and a loose one two. He had no idea how to cut off a ring, so it would stand to reason, Shakur, who's clearly more skilled than Ito, knew he had this one in the bag going in. Not easy pickings, but still quite a safe risk.


    So clearly, he's been matched VERY VERY WELL. Now, when is he going to actually fight someone who has a decent skill set? When is he going to face a relentless pressure fighter with a great chin who cuts the ring off well? When is he going to face a dangerous southpaw? When is he going to actually face an opponent with power, who poses a serious threat to him? When will his handlers allow that to occur? Because it's beyond obvious to anyone with a keen eye, he's benefited greatly from being babied and to a great degree had his record padded with flashy name opponents, that he possesses an advantageous stylistic edge over. Doubtful it'll be anytime soon. If there's one thing Top Rank are great at doing, is knowing styles and avoiding the bad ones by absolutely any means necessary. But the reality is, until he fights someone who could actually realistically beat him, and he hasn't. He's still a largely unproven fighter and far from the best at 135. But many fans have been tricked by these slick tactics into thinking he is.
     
  5. Blaxx

    Blaxx Active Member Full Member

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    Yes, it doesn't even need a dissertation like that. He is the best fighter at 135lbs and one of the best in the world already. Doesn't take a whole day to recognize sunshine
     
  6. ellerbe

    ellerbe Loyal Member Full Member

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    Who do you think would give him a tough fight? Would you give him credit if he beats pit bull or the other Mexican dude who is ducking him?
     
  7. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

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    Yeah, if sorry Sugar Ray Leonard could make Duran tuck tail and quit, Shakur would have made Duran retire before he stepped in the ring with him. He would have had Hagler browning his trousers at the possibility of Shakur gaining 25 pounds and coming up to middleweight. LOL
    Shakur does look impressive, but until he can look as good against a better crop of fighters, calling him great at anything may be premature. But, he does pass the eye test with flying colors. Hope he lives up to the hype.
     
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  8. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Imagine being crowned as the best 135 by beating a one dimensional brawler Yoshino. Until we see him against a legit 135 opponent there's no reason to rush in and call him the best of the division.
     
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  9. Badbot

    Badbot You can just do things. Full Member

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    TLDR; Stevens mainly fights basic brawlers to whom he is a stylistic nightmare for.
     
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  10. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Unless and until someone proves otherwise, right now it's Haney. The Dream is the best at 135 right now.
     
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  11. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

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    No love for Loma?
     
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  12. senpai

    senpai Boxing Addict Full Member

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    By beating Kambosos ?

    It's like Fury fanboys, that were saying that he is the best after he beat Wilder in the second fight.
     
  13. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not counting Lomachenko out. Not at all. I think he has a great chance to beat Haney.

    But unless and until that happens, Haney is clearly the man right now in my eyes.
     
  14. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    I think there's several guys at 135 that could prove to be a nightmare for him, like Gustavo Lemos, William Zepeda, Albert Batyrgaziev, Edwin De Los Santos, Gary Cully, Otar Eranosyan, Hector Garcia, Lazaro Alvarez, Frank Martin and the aforementioned Pitbull Cruz. So sure, if he faces 2 or 3 guys like that, and beats them convincingly, then I might be impressed. Especially Cruz, since he is a notorious southpaw killer. It's the reason I picked him to upset Tank Davis, and with fair judging, he would've at the very least handed him his first draw.
     
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  15. Carpe Diem

    Carpe Diem Member Full Member

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    Pump the brakes! I think he’s really good too, but defensively he mainly uses his legs to step out of range over and over. He knows how to use his distance and has great fundamentals in terms of throwing crisp sharp punches. He really does reminds me a bit of Floyd, although not quite as athletically gifted as Floyd was though in terms of reflexes, hand speed, etc.